Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee

We will proceed directly to item 2, where we have statutory instruments that raise no reporting issues under Standing Order 21.2 or 21.3. We have a number of these, beginning with paper 1, statutory instruments with clear reports.

First of all, we have negative resolution instruments, and we have item 2.1, SL(6)021, the Cancellation of Student Loans for Living Costs Liability (Wales) Regulations 2021. This governs the student loan liability of full-time students who receive loans for living costs from Welsh Ministers in respect of the academic year 2021-22. Our lawyers from the Senedd have not identified any points for reporting. Do we have any of the lawyers or clerking team who wish to make any observations? No. Okay. In which case, if I could ask Rhys, Jayne and Peter if they've got any observations, or if we're happy to agree the draft report. Brilliant. Okay, thank you for that.

We will move on to the next item. Just bear with me as I adjust my screen here so I can see everybody. Item 2.2, SL(6)022, the Education (Student Finance) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) Regulations 2021, seeking to make amendments to several sets of regulations relating to student support, including providing that an eligible student who lives with their parents for a reason only relating to coronavirus is treated as living in the location they would have been living had it not been for that reason, unless the student requests otherwise. Again, we have no identified points raised by Senedd lawyers. Are we happy to agree that draft report? Thank you, colleagues. Okay.

Then we can move on to item 2.3, SL(6)025, the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2021, starting at pack page 2. This instrument makes several amendments to the Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) (Wales) Regulations 2012. Again, there are no points for reporting. Could I ask Members: are we happy to agree that? We are, thank you very much. And for people who are watching in, even though we're going through this at speed, just to point out these papers are prepared in advance, so committee members can look through them, and our clerking teams and legal experts also go through them as well in advance. But we will come to some subsequently where we have items to raise.

Item 2.4 we'll move on to, SL(6)036, the Additional Learning Needs and Education Tribunal (Wales) Act 2018 (Consequential Amendments) (No. 2) Regulations 2021. This is making consequential amendments to secondary legislation in light of the additional learning needs system coming into force in relation to some children from 1 September 2021. Again, our Senedd lawyers have not identified any points. Are we happy to agree this as a committee? Thank you, colleagues.

We go on, then, to item 2.5, which is SL(6)038, the Infant Formula and Follow-on Formula (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2021. This refers to new rules relating to infant formula and follow-on formula made from protein hydrolysates, which will apply on a Great Britain-wide basis from 22 February 2022. This instrument provides for the enforcement of those rules in Wales from that date. Again, lawyers have not identified any points for reporting, so are we happy to agree that? Thank you very much.

Now, we move on to item No. 3. Again, for people who are watching in, as well as committee members, we now move to instruments that raise issues to be reported to the Senedd under our Standing Orders 21.2 or 21.3. And we're going to start with what we call the made negative resolution instruments, and we begin now with item 3.1, SL(6)024, the Plant Health (Fees) (Forestry) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021. Now, this is in paper No. 2 and paper No. 3 and paper No. 4 in Members' packs. This instrument provides for increases in the fees payable to Welsh Ministers for services in relation to plant passport authorities and applications for phytosanitary certificates to reflect an inflationary rise in the cost of providing those services since the introduction of the fees.

So, Senedd lawyers have identified one technical and one merits point for reporting, and a Welsh Government response has been received. So we're going to invite our lawyers now to comment before we either discuss this or agree with the way forward. So, Gareth, are you speaking to this?

Diolch. The technical point simply asks the Welsh Government to confirm there is no change in the basis upon which these plant fees are calculated. If there is a change to the basis, then the affirmative procedure should apply. The Welsh Government has responded to confirm there is no change in the basis on which these fees are calculated, so the negative procedure is fine. And the merits point simply notes there is an increase in fees, which is a reporting point under Standing Order 21.3(i). So, although the basis for calculating fees has not changed, there can, of course, still be an increase in the actual fees.

Thank you, Gareth, for diligence on this and succinct points on that. Could I ask Peter and Rhys and Jayne, are you happy to agree with those reporting points, or do you have any observations? No. All okay. There we are. Gareth, thank you very much for that.

We'll move on to the next one, which is item 3.2, SL(6)033, the National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) (Amendment) (Wales) Regulations 2021. And this instrument amends the National Health Service (Optical Charges and Payments) Regulations 1997, which provide for payment to be made by means of a voucher system in respect of costs connected with sight tests and the supply, replacement and repair of those optical appliances. So, the instrument amends those 1997 regulations to make reference to an increase in the NHS sight test fee of 1.9 per cent from 1 April 2021. Now, this has raised one merits point with our Senedd lawyers, which I suspect might be similar. Gareth, back to you.

Well, yes, it notes this 1.9 per cent increase in the NHS sight test fee and, in particular, that it applies retrospectively from 1 April 2021. Making retrospective provision is often frowned upon, but in this case the National Health Service (Wales) Act 2006—that is the Act that enables the Welsh Ministers to make these regulations—expressly allows retrospective provision to be made in this area.

Excellent. Thank you very much again. Members, are we happy to agree the reporting points? Thank you. Thank you very much indeed.

That brings us on to item 3.3, which is SL(6)039, the Business Tenancies (Extension of Protection from Forfeiture etc.) (Wales) (Coronavirus) (No. 3) Regulations 2021. This instrument extends the duration of the moratorium provided by section 82 of the Coronavirus Act 2020, during which a right of re-entry or forfeiture under a relevant business tenancy for non-payment of rent may not be enforced during the, in quotes, 'relevant period', and the relevant period is now to end in relation to Wales on 25 March 2022. So, our lawyers have identified two merits points for reporting. Gareth, if I could hand back to you, please.

The merits points summarise some of the main issues that arise from this moratorium. So, for example, the explanatory memorandum to the regulations says that landlords are expected to take a tough approach to commercial rent arrears when the moratorium is lifted. The Welsh Government considers it reasonable to continue to provide support to businesses until they are able to resume trading normally, and the Welsh Government says that the worst outcome would be a cliff edge where all protections are withdrawn with nothing to replace them, and that it seems there will be a package of measures in this area underpinned by close engagement between the Welsh Government and the UK Government.

So, in noting those points, Gareth, from our committee's perspective of the merits points, I'm assuming that other committees within their purview of the policy area would also be looking at this and would be looking at our reporting points as well.

They are free to look at this. Any subject areas around business tenancies, yes, they are free to look at—[Inaudible.]

There we are, brilliant, okay. Thank you very much. Could I ask committee members: are you happy to not just note but agree those reporting points? Thank you very much. Thanks, Gareth.

That brings us on to item 3.4, SL(6)023, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (Wales) (No. 2) Regulations 2021, and this instrument amends the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (Wales) Regulations 2020, and the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel, Pre-Departure Testing and Operator Liability) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2021. And specifically, it adds four sporting events to Schedule 4, participation in which makes a person exempt from isolation requirements. And our lawyers have identified three merits points for reporting. Gareth, over to you.

Yes, these are standard reporting points relating to things like lack of consultation and the Welsh Government's justification for any interference with human rights.

It's also maybe worth noting that a lot of the coronavirus-related items on the remainder of today's agenda have since been superseded: many coronavirus-related regulations were made over the summer recess. Things changed on a regular basis over the summer, so some of the regulations being considered today are by now out of date.

Thank you, Gareth. But, interestingly, both for committee members and myself as a committee member, and for members of the public watching this, that doesn't negate our responsibility to ensure that—both in technical and merits terms—anything that's been passed during the summer has been done properly as well, and that's what we're doing today, so we don't let anything slip by us. But thank you, Gareth. It's important to note that some of the ones we are looking at today have indeed been superseded. Thank you.

Which brings us, then, on to item 3.5, SL(6)028, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Public Health Information to Travellers) (Wales) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (No. 2) Regulations 2021, and this instrument makes amendments to the international travel regulations, including changes to the red, amber and green lists, and a change in requirements for specified travellers from amber-list countries. And Gareth, our lawyers have identified three merits points on this.

Again, just on the standard reporting points. So, I've nothing further to add to what is in the draft report.

Thank you very much. Are we happy to agree those reporting points? Thank you. I'm not sure if I put on record as well—are we happy to agree the reporting points on the previous item as well? Yes. Thank you all very much.

Item 3.6, SL(6)029, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 9) Regulations 2021. Regulation 2A of the international travel regulations contains exemptions to isolation and specific testing requirements for travellers to Wales who have been vaccinated or are under 18. This instrument amends the international travel regulations so that the regulation 2A exemptions do not apply to people travelling to Wales from metropolitan France. Our lawyers have identified three merits points for reporting. Gareth.

Again, just those standard reporting points.

Thank you, Gareth. Are we happy to agree that? Thank you all very much.

Item 3.7—SL(6)032, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (Wales) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (No. 3) Regulations 2021. This amends the international travel regulations so that certain travellers arriving in Wales from amber list countries do not have to isolate. Furthermore, such travellers are also not required to take a PCR test on day 8 after arriving in Wales. The instrument also makes amendments to the operator liability regulations, and you can see from this, and the others that we're dealing with, as to the point that Gareth was making earlier on, that some of these will be live and have been superseded as we've got to this point. But Gareth, you've identified three merits points again.

Again, as previously, just those standard ones we raise.

Thank you very much. Are we happy to agree? We are. Thank you very much.

Item 3.8, SL(6)035, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel and Operator Liability) (Wales) (Miscellaneous Amendments) (No. 4) Regulations 2021. This amends the international travel regulations so that the exemption from the requirement to isolate and take a PCR day 8 test also applies to travellers who come to

Wales from metropolitan France. The instrument also amends the list of green and red countries and territories, it adds the Curtis Cup to the list of specified events to which a bespoke testing regime applies, it makes changes to the technical specification for post-arrival tests and consequential amendments to the operator liability regulations. Again, Gareth, three merits points for reporting.

And again, the same standard reporting points.

Okay. And we're happy to agree? Excellent, thank you very much.

Item 3.9—we've got a few of these today in our business—again it's SL(6)040, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, International Travel) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 10) Regulations 2021. Again, this instrument makes various amendments to the international travel regulations, including changes to the red, amber and green lists and the list of specified sporting events for which an individual who's required to isolate may leave isolation to compete or train in. And again, three merits points. Gareth.

And again, just the same standard reporting points.

Thank you very much. Are we happy to agree that? Thank you very much, and thank you for that, Gareth, and the explanations around those as well.

It brings us on to a slightly different item now on our business, which is the made affirmative resolution instruments, and on those we begin with item 3.10, which is SL(6)026, the Trade in Animals and Related Products (Wales) (Amendment) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2021. Now, this instrument is also linked not only to the report and regulations and explanatory memorandum in your papers 35 onwards, but also paper 38, the letter from the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd, of 14 July. So, it makes amendments to subordinate legislation relating to biosecurity controls for the imports of live animals and animal products as part of a Great Britain-wide approach. The effect of this instrument will be to further delay the introduction of documentary and physical checks at border control posts in Wales in respect of imported animal products. These checks will now be phased in between 1 October 2021 and 1 March 2022, and our lawyers have identified one merits point for reporting. Gareth.

The merits point repeats some interesting and important issues that are noted in the explanatory memorandum. For example, this revised timetable will allow businesses and authorities more time to adapt to the new trading relationship with the EU, and more time to recover from the impacts of the coronavirus pandemic. The explanatory memorandum also says that the preference of industry stakeholders would be for Great Britain import checks to be introduced sooner rather than later, because such import checks have been applied by the European Union since January 2021. Also, the consultation highlighted the need for clarity from Governments as to future border arrangements. But, at the same time, there was general consensus that further delaying the introduction of these checks is necessary to help the sector get ready for the new checks that will need to be carried out.

Thank you for that explanation there. Do we have any points that Members want to raise, or are we happy to agree those reporting points? We're happy. Thank you and thank you, Gareth.

Now, we're moving on to now a set of regulations that make amendments to the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) Regulations 2021, the principal regulations. They are all scheduled for debate in Plenary on Tuesday, 21 September. So, the first one of these we'll turn to is SL(6)027, and I'm going to skip to the end because this applies to a bunch of them. It's the amendment No. 14 regulations. This instrument under item 3.11 was made on 16 July, came into force on 17 July. It makes amendments to a number of provisions, including those in relation to licensed premises, meeting indoors and organised indoor events. And Gareth, three merits points you've identified.

Again, they are some standard reporting points and, just to say, this is another good example of how the coronavirus rules have moved on. These regulations were made almost two months ago when Wales was at alert level 1. Since then, of course, Wales has moved to alert level 0.

That's great. Thank you very much, Gareth. Are we happy to agree those reporting points? We are. Thank you, and we move on to item 3.12, referring to, again, SL(6)034, et cetera, No. 15 regulations 2021. And I draw your attention to not only the papers but the letter from the First Minister on 6 August 2021 which is in the papers. This instrument was made on 6 August and, as Members will be aware, provides that from 7 August 2021 no alert level applies to Wales. And again, we've identified through our lawyers three merits points, Gareth.

And again, just those standard reporting points.

Okay. Happy to agree those reporting points? We are. Thank you very much, which brings us to item 3.13, SL(6)041. Once again, (No. 16) regulations 2021. This instrument was made on 27 August, came into force on 28 August, and it makes further amendments to the principal regulations in relation to specific areas, including requirements regarding the wearing of face coverings and requirements on those responsible for election campaigning. It also omits Part 6 of the principal regulations, which provided for circumstances in which schools were required to be open to allow the children of critical workers or vulnerable children to attend. You've identified three merits points, Gareth.

As before, just those standard reporting points.

Okay, are we happy to agree? We are.

Thank you very much, which brings us to item 4. These are instruments that were previously considered for sifting and are now subject to scrutiny under Standing Orders 21.2 and 21.3. The following instrument was previously laid before the Senedd for sifting in accordance with paragraph 4 of Schedule 7 to the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. The committee agreed at that point that the negative procedure was the appropriate procedure for the instrument. With saying that, we turn to item 4.1, SL(6)031, the Food and Drink (Transitional Provisions) (Wales) (EU Exit) Regulations 2021. This relates to an instrument amending the Food Information (Wales) Regulations 2014, and the Country of Origin of Certain Meats (Wales) Regulations 2015, which relate to food and drink standards and labelling. These amendments are required to address deficiencies arising from the EU exit, to ensure the statute book can operate effectively following the UK's exit from the EU. Now, do we have any points on this, Gareth?

If I could just add a bit more context to what these regulations do, they introduce a transitional period during which improvement notices cannot be served on anyone who fails to comply with new labelling requirements. So, more time is being given to comply with new food labelling requirements. That example isn't given in the draft report, but if Members are content, it can be included in the report before it is formally laid, to give a bit more context.

Thank you for that suggestion. Are we happy with our lawyers suggesting that we include that within the report? Yes. I think that's wise. Thank you very much. Thank you, Gareth.

So, we move from that, with thanks to our lawyers for the diligence that they've applied scrutiny to all of those regulations in front of us. It really is quite the task to do. It shows the benefit, though, of committees like this.

We're going to move to item 5: written statements under Standing Order 30C. The first of these written statements we need to look at is item 5.1, WS-30C(6)001, the Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products (Wine) (Amendment, etc.) Regulations 2021. Now, this is quite interesting, because what we have here in our explanations, our briefing notes for committee members, is the note that there is disagreement between Welsh Government and UK Government as to whether consent is required for these regulations, and consent has not been sought by the UK Government. The statement provides that the Welsh Government is of the view that agriculture and the common agricultural policy are devolved and do not relate to the reserved matters under any heading in Schedule 7A to the Government of Wales Act 2006. Further, the statement notes that the Welsh Ministers have written to the UK Government to inform them of their view that it isn't appropriate for the UK Government Ministers to take unilateral decisions on matters that have a direct effect upon areas of devolved competence. I wonder, Gareth, do you have anything you can add to that for us?

I think it's worth noting this isn't a new disagreement. Over the last two or three years, we've seen other regulations in this area with the two Governments disagreeing as to whether this area is devolved. Obviously, the dispute continues, and there is no formal process for resolving disputes of this kind.

Thank you, Gareth. And, as you know, Members, under other areas of our programme of business, beyond looking at written statements and regulations and so on, it's one of the things that we will probably bring our attention back to as part of the legacy issues of this committee; pursuing those inter-governmental agreements and arbitration and so on and so forth. But for now, Gareth, could I ask if previously—this is not new, as you say—the appropriate approach that this committee has taken previously is to raise these issues?

Chair, if I may. Yes, that would be one approach. We could raise these issues with the Welsh Government and potentially with committees in the UK Parliament. Perhaps we could decide the best course of approach in private, having given consideration to some of the other matters on the agenda.

That would be great. Thank you very much for that. So, if we note this paper for now and we'll return to that in discussion. Thank you very much for that, both, there. So, Jayne, Peter and Rhys, we'll return to this in private discussion, but for the moment, any observations, or are you happy to wait until we go into private session? Thank you very much. Okay.

The second item here is item 5.2: WS-30C(6)002, the Health Security (EU Exit) Regulations 2021. Now, this statement notes that the Welsh Government has given consent to the making of the Health Security (EU Exit) Regulations 2021 and the statement notes that consent was given as there is no policy divergence between the UK and Welsh Government, and it also notes that it is, in quotes, 'appropriate for there to be a UK-wide system to respond to emerging health threats'. Committee members will note that these regulations provide specific implementation of the health security provisions of the trade and co-operation agreement. Members will also note that the Welsh Government has stated that these regulations will have no impact on the Senedd's legislative competence. However, we might want to return to this again in private session and discuss this if Members are happy to note it for now. Okay, that's great. Sorry, Gareth, did you want to make any points at the moment or do you want to wait until private session?

Only to say that these regulations seem to create new functions that the Senedd would not be able to remove in future if it wanted to without UK Government consent. So, the committee may wish to seek clarity from the Welsh Government on any effect that these UK Government regulations have on the Senedd's legislative competence, even though the Welsh Ministers consented to the UK Government making these regulations.

That's great. That's very helpful, Gareth, thank you very much. So, we'll return to that and go into some detail on that in private session, and what options we have for flagging this as well, then.

We move, then, on to item 6, papers to note. These are for noting now, but we can return to them, then, in private session. So, first of all, item 6.1, we have correspondence from the Minister for Economy on the ministerial forum for trade. So, I'd ask Members to note those letters from the Minister in relation to his attendance at the meeting of the ministerial forum for trade on 14 July. And the letter of 12 July notes that it has been sent in connection with the inter-institutional relations agreement—something that is also of interest to us as a committee—and that further correspondence in relation to the agreement is being considered at our subsequent items of 6.3, 6.5 and 6.8. So, are we happy to note that? We are. We are indeed.

Then we'll go on to item 6.2, correspondence from the Llywydd on the committee timetable, and I invite Members to note the letter from the Llywydd, which confirms the committee timetable as agreed by Business Committee at its meeting of 13 July. Again, we can return to this and to other items of correspondence in the private session. Are we happy to note? We are. Thank you very much.

We go on to item 6.3, correspondence from the Counsel General and Minister for the

Constitution on the inter-ministerial group for elections and registrations. I'd invite you to note the letters from the Counsel General, which inform us of his attendance at meetings of the inter-ministerial group. We're happy to note.

Which takes us on to item 6.4, correspondence with the Llywydd in respect of legislative consent

memorandum on the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, and I simply invite you to note that correspondence and again, we can raise it in our private discussions. I think we're happy to note that. Shout out if there's something you want to stop me on now, like the ice cream seller going past—shout out; run after me.

Item 6.5, correspondence from the Minister for Finance and Local Government on the finance Ministers' quadrilateral. Are we happy to note that? We are. We can move on.

Item 6.6, correspondence from the Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee in respect of children and young people's priorities for the sixth Senedd and the approach of that committee to its work at the start of the sixth Senedd. Now, we might wish to consider this correspondence again in a few weeks' time when we discuss strategic planning of the committee. So, I'd invite you to note that for the moment.

Then item 6.7, correspondence from the chief executive of the Competition and Markets Authority on the Office for the Internal Market. It's in relation to work to establish the Office for the Internal Market. Just for Members to be aware, our clerking team is in contact with the Competition and Markets Authority to set up an initial meeting on this, but, as long as we're happy to note it, we can return to this, as needed, in private discussion.

Then we're going to move to item 6.8, correspondence with the First Minister in relation to a new agreement for inter-institutional relations. Again, a key part of our business going forward, I suggest, and, if we're happy to note it, we can discuss this in the private session.

Item 6.9, correspondence from the Minister for Climate Change, providing an update on the UK emissions trading scheme, and in particular two statutory instruments expected to be laid in November as Orders in Council. If you're happy to note, we can defer discussion on this.

Item 6.10, correspondence with the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists on a potential inquiry proposal—a short inquiry—into the speech, language and communication needs of young people in the youth justice estate. Again, if you're happy to note for now, we can defer this to our future discussion on strategic planning.

Then item 6.11, correspondence from the chair of the Equality and Social Justice Committee on joint working between committees in the sixth Senedd, and again this seems to be one that would lend itself well to our future session on strategic planning. So, if you're happy to note it, we'll do that.

Then 6.12, correspondence in relation to the UK-EU parliamentary partnership assembly, and we have within that papers from Lord Kinnoull of August, a letter to Lord Kinnoull, a letter to Sir Oliver Heald MP of 16 July. Again, if we can note the correspondence, we can come back to it if needed in private discussion.

Item 6.13, correspondence with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution on common frameworks, and we're invited to note that correspondence, if you're happy with that. We are and we'll move forward.

Item 6.14, correspondence with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution on the evidence session, and Members will note, to their great consternation after our busy workload today in this public and then private session, that we've had, unexpectedly, a postponed evidence session with the Counsel General. There are reasons behind it, which we asked him to give in writing, although they had informed us behind the scenes why this was. So, that session will now take place on Monday 20 September. So, we can defer discussion on this to the private session.

That brings us to item No. 7, which is a motion under Standing Order 17.42 to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of the meeting. But before I just ask Members for their consent to that, just to explain to members of the public who may be watching this, the reason we do this is that with some of the detail of the correspondence, some of the reports that we need to look at, we'll be going into detail in private now as a committee and then lifting our heads out of private at subsequent meetings to let you know what decisions we come to on them. So, there's a reason why we suddenly go behind the curtain, just to let you know.

Are Members content to go into private session now? We are. Thank you very much. We move into private session.