Yes, that's absolutely fine. Thank you, Sarah. It's an absolutely critical time, as you say, not least, obviously, with soaring energy prices right now as well, and perhaps we can touch on that a little later. But, as you say, in relation to the question that you've just asked, I understand that, since its launch, the Warm Homes programme has invested something like £394 million into improving the energy efficiency of something like 67,100 homes in Wales, and, yes, that should make those homes less likely to be in fuel poverty. I think, for its recent beneficiaries, that should, hopefully, make the current crisis easier to bear than it might otherwise have been as well. Public Health Wales estimate, as you may well know, that, for every £1 you spend investing in making a vulnerable person's home warmer, then you would see a resulting £4 in health benefit. So, that £394 million could well see significant savings to the NHS in Wales too, which is something to be praised.
However, I think, perhaps in three areas, it's important to note that, whilst very welcome, in terms of scale, targeting and the measures of the current programme, there are mixed views and some concern. So, in terms of the scale, I think it's widely acknowledged now that the current schemes have not been sufficient to address the scale of fuel poverty in Wales by 2018 estimates, let alone 2022 estimates. I think the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs in 2019, as part of the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee's inquiry into fuel poverty, at that time said that if those 2018 estimates were to be believed, then the funding of the Warm Homes programme would need to be more than doubled, and the future generations commissioner has also just called on the Welsh Government to do the same, as well as for additional funding from UK Government. So, it's quite clear that the likely scale of fuel poverty now will require much larger numbers of households to be lifted out of fuel poverty every year than has hitherto been the case.
I think, in terms of targeting, there are mixed views on its impact on reducing fuel poverty and some serious questions have been raised too as to how effective those schemes have been in targeting those in fuel poverty and in greatest need of support. I think the Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee—which I might just stop saying and just say CCERA, if that's okay, after this point—noted in 2019 that it would be very hard to be precise about the impact. For Arbed it's very unclear, not least because the annual reports simply don't state whether you were in fuel poverty before or after the intervention, and, for Nest, while it does so, I think the majority of those who've received measures in most recent years have not been in fuel poverty: 57 per cent, I think, in 2018-19; something like 63 per cent, 64 per cent, in 2019-20; and just under 50 per cent in 2020-21. So, that's obviously very important to note too.
And so too, I think, in terms of measures, the vast majority of measures, as you may have heard elsewhere, that have been installed, especially under Nest, but, I think, more broadly too, have been replacement boilers and central heating systems. That, while welcome for households, has been to the detriment of really meaningful fabric upgrades that would make a permanent solution to lower bills, and many long-term benefits. And, I think, we were concerned by the scheme manager's response in 2019 too that those measures—fabric upgrades—were seen as additional and secondary. So, I think I would probably highlight those things in starting.