, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
And that is the danger and that is what consistently appears within bits of legislation. Very frequently, we're able to get that changed or to get it altered, and within this fairly tortuous negotiation process that takes place. Retained EU law is one that…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes. Can I just add one point on that? The difficulty, of course, is that we get the notification to say that I've had a meeting with, et cetera, or I will be meeting to discuss, et cetera—the difficulty is how much you've actually got to actually say beyond…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
The first contact I had was when all four nations were called together and told there was going to be a publication, and there was going to be an announcement at the beginning of the week, but we weren't actually given the publication and we weren't allowed…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
One of the problems on these as well, though, is that, of course, sometimes you've literally only got a couple of weeks' notice in terms of the amendment, and being told that you either agree to this within the next seven days or it won't happen. So, there…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I suppose it comes down, doesn't it, to the earliest stage of being able to table the LCM. Because that's where the detail of what's being proposed will come forward and go onto the floor of the Senedd, and can actually be debated. It will specifically state…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
The starting point is that we don't go to UK Government and say, 'Can you bring a piece of legislation forward on our behalf?' Certainly, as far as I'm aware, I think every experience I have is that those circumstances have only arisen where legislation has…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
My view is I don't think there's any significance in it. I think it's probably just drafting, in terms of the letter. My view is that legislation should be enacted within Wales, but there are circumstances, as I've outlined, when that can't be done. In my…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Absolutely.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
It is a democratic deficit in the sense that we would want all legislation that involves Welsh powers to be actually initiated within Wales and scrutinised within Wales with the opportunity to change, to amend et cetera. I think where you have a UK Government…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
It's the diversion of the resources from what you're doing on existing legislation that means existing legislation will be deferred. Some of the legislation is incredibly complex and is not going to be done quickly because it's just the sheer nature of that…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
It's not the question that it takes several years to do it—
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
No. The point is that once it comes forward you've still got to actually scrutinise it, you've still got to analyse it, you've still got to produce the LCM on it. But, you would divert resources if the position we adopted was to say, 'Well, this is actually a…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
There was one piece of legislation—I think it might have been the police, crime and sentencing Bill—where the UK Government was going to put an amendment to criminalise vaginoplasty. It's something that we might want to do, but it's not part of our programme…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I don't think it's the issue of capacity in terms of the things that we want to do. I think there are certainly issues in terms of ensuring that you are continually aware of the specific skills that you have and how they are allocated and where they're…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Yes. This is how I see it: it's not an issue of resource or capacity per se, in that sense. I have to take it back a little bit. The development of policy, the interlinking between policy leading into instructions for legislative change and then leading to…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
If I could just add, we would know, for example—. We all knew that there was going to be—probably going to be—a Northern Ireland Protocol Bill, but, as I think probably the First Minister said in the Senedd, to then get a letter from UK Government saying…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, listen, Sewel has been a growing and emerging problem the more responsibilities that we've had in this place, and the same within Scotland as well; there'll be more need to have the delineation of the exercise of power and responsibilities. It takes you…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I think the biggest difficulty is not the legislative consent process itself, but the way in which legislation originates, and the momentum that can get behind UK Government Bills and the way in which it may or may not intrude into the devolved areas…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, I think the point is, isn't it, that once the UK Government has brought forward legislation, if it impacts on Wales, or impacts on the devolved powers, we have an obligation to lay a legislative consent memorandum. One of the difficulties is, of course…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
The answer is 'yes'. Those discussions and those issues have been raised, and assurances have been given. And, as part of the new inter-ministerial arrangements, that is meant to happen. We've been given those assurances. Of course, there's only been one…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
There are devolution guidance notes, and, of course, the whole principles of early engagement et cetera and devolution respect and so on all feature as part of that, as indeed they do now in terms of the new inter-ministerial framework, which we've started to…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, quite often, UK Government Bills will relate to things that aren't part of our programme for government, and then the issue arises whether there's something in that that we might want to seize the opportunity to do, that it might be advantageous to the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
I don't think it's a matter for the programme for government. The programme for government sets out what the Government's agenda is, the legislative programme, and other policy directions. The legislative programme of the UK Government, of course, is…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Scrutiny session with the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution
Well, I'll take them through—introduce yourselves.
, Plenary
Debate on the Report of the Special Purpose Committee on Senedd Reform—Reforming our Senedd: A stronger voice for the people of Wales
The assurance that I give to this Senedd is that I will work to create legislation that implements the recommendations of this Senedd, and that that legislation will be robust and competent. The special purpose committee's recommendation for gender quotas…
