, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 4
Thank you for that. In your written evidence, you talked about the lack of engagement in the Prime Minister and Heads of Devolved Governments Council. How could that impact on the effectiveness of the IGR process and how does it reflect on the UK Government's…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 4
Fantastic. Thank you very much for coming in this morning and also thank you very much for your written evidence to us. It was fascinating and will lead, probably, on to quite a few questions from us for you to go into a bit more detail on what you've said…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 4
We'll move on to item 4, which is our next evidence session in our inquiry. We've got a witness here with us. Paul, would you mind introducing yourself for the record, please?
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 4
Welcome back to this meeting of the Finance Committee, and we will now move on to item 4.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
Thank you. Thank you very much for your time this morning. It's been fascinating, and your expertise is very helpful to us from your viewpoints. We will share with you a copy of the transcript. We may have one or two other questions that we might want to pose…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
I'll give the final word to Mike, if he wants. We've just gone over time, but we'll take a final comment.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
No, okay. Fair play. Peter, and I'll bring Mike in.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
And was that a dispute about the quantum of money, or was that—?
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
And nobody has tested it yet.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
With regard to that dispute mechanism, who can—? Forgive my ignorance of it, but how does it actually work? Is it that unilaterally somebody could raise a dispute and then it gets raised to that committee or to that meeting? Could you talk through how…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
Okay, that's fine.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
I think when we get some of the letters and reports, they're very brief from the Minister or Cabinet Secretary. So, it might be something that we would take on board and think on further. I'm going to move on to Mike, because I'm conscious of time, and there…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
Thank you.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
And with your knowledge of legislation and the frameworks and everything that's there, would legislation be needed to do that? Or would it be something that could be done through regulations or through guidance or through whatever mechanisms that are there?
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
So, who could feasibly do that to have that independence of Government to be able to actually make that judgment that the Treasury might actually take heed of?
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
Rhianon.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
I'll move on to Peter Fox with some questions.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
Rhianon.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
I'll come to you in just a second, Rhianon. With a general election looming, is it an opportunity to actually reset some of this and put expectations in place, more so from the start of the next UK Government, regardless of who's in Downing Street, but…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
Professor Kenny, in your 'Green shoots for the Union?' article, you said the new IGR arrangements significantly reduce the UK Government's control of inter-governmental meetings and processes, which is an important precondition for a system that will enjoy…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
I think one of the things that we've struggled with in this committee is getting anybody from the Treasury, for example, to engage with us. The engagement's through a circumvented route, through the Secretary of State for Wales, but they don't make themselves…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
Talking in your publication 'Reforming Intergovernmental Relations in the United Kingdom', you said that a new set of principles established as a result of the IGR review underline mutual respect for the separate and shared roles and responsibilities of each…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
It's a 'what gets measured gets done' type of thing. Rhianon, and then I'll bring Peter in.
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
I think what you're saying there is that the signal to the Westminster machine is possibly even more important than to the devolved Governments—that, actually, there is an importance, as you say, to these relationships, and if that doesn't happen, then it…
, Finance Committee
Fiscal Inter-governmental Relations: Evidence session 3
Evidence that we've had to this inquiry has noted a lack of engagement between the Prime Minister and heads of government council, since this top-tier forum has not met since November 2022. Does that talk to some of what you're talking about there, Mike? What…
