, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I think the full range of costs that we received back from the centres were from just over £200 for that four-night stay, up to around £500 for that four-night stay. So, that's the full range. I'm going to ask perhaps Dave Harvey again to talk to some of the…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Can I just make one more comment on this, Chair, as well? A lot of this work is within the existing curriculum at the moment. There's recognition of the importance of learning outside of the classroom, and that's why the Welsh Government works closely with…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Exactly, yes. It's part of a continuum, but it's a very, very important part of that. I don't want to guess, Chair, but it's often the thing—and I suspect it's true in your case—that you remember. It's the thing that kind of sits in the mind, that experience…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I think it's a fair point to say that just this one experience is not going to be the one and only thing that's going to switch young people on to the outdoors and—
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Thanks, Peter. It's really tempting, isn't it, as a Member presenting a Bill—it was certainly tempting for me—to put down some fairly ambitious cost benefits around this. And if I could point out, Members, perhaps, that in the explanatory memorandum I do…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Lest we forget about the Green Book.
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I'll talk to two points there, very, very briefly, and then I think I'll ask Christian in particular to come in on this as well. On the first point around the declining costs, that's purely down to the pupil numbers decreasing over that time, so the number of…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I find it quite a strange point, I suppose, because that's suggesting that Welsh Government, perhaps, don't do any indicative thinking beyond 2025; I certainly hope that they do do that. I think I'd be criticised here today if I didn't have anything beyond…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
It's a fair point and it is absolutely something that we considered in the development of the Bill. What's worth saying is that there is capacity within the sector at the moment, and they've recognised that. They recognise that there are things that the…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
No, that's appreciated, Mike. I was going to make that point myself, so I thank you for making it for me. And let me just give credit to the team that are either side of me and on the screen today as well for this, because as a Member, I'm just a very small…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I recognise that there's a need to ensure that a policy is deliverable in the first instance. So, I personally don't have an issue with something being a specific grant for a short period of time. I think what we've seen in the past is that not being reviewed…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I wonder—. I mean, we're talking hypothetically, I guess, but I wonder, once the Bill has been in place for a certain number of years, where there seems to be a very clear cycle and funding level required, once that grant element is finished, then you can…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
So, I haven't outlined that on the face of the Bill. I would expect that, if I was doing this, I wouldn’t want it on a claims basis because I think that, administratively, for local authorities and schools in particular, that would become fairly burdensome to…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I think you used the right words there, Mike, in your question: it’s a matter of priorities. Government can afford whatever it chooses to afford. It does though mean that there are pressures elsewhere. I’m not denying that at all. I’m not saying that…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Again, it's an important question, and absolutely something that I've considered through all of this. I think there are probably three points I'll try to make around this, and you're right to show that there are costs, or there can be costs, associated with…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
So, I think it's an important point to recognise that there are some informal schemes in place, as Rhianon Passmore's pointed out, where some schools choose to use the pupil development grant. There's nothing in the guidance on the pupil development grant…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Yes, yes, absolutely.
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
It depends how you look at it. [Laughter.] You're very positive this morning; perhaps I have a glass half empty today. But, yes, there is no underestimation, I think, is the key to this, within what's in front of you.
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I think it's a really good question, and I suspect that if I was sat here and had made an estimate of the take-up, I could well be criticised for not ensuring enough funding had been made available in case 100 per cent of children did decide to take this…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
So, the part there, within Wales, I've been very clear in the guidance that, first of all, there must be provision that residential outdoor education be provided in Welsh, subject to availability, where requested by a school. So, there's a requirement within…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
You're absolutely right, there have been a number of questions around the definition, and I appreciate that, because the face of the Bill itself does not put a definition in there. Within the explanatory memorandum, there is a section called 'Definition of…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Thanks, Chair, and thank you for having me with you this morning. I'm not sure you have a huge amount of choice on that, with Member Bills, but I appreciate it nonetheless. And I also recognise that you've taken evidence, as you say, from the Minister before…
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Yes. So, there is me, isn't there? Sam Rowlands, Member of the Senedd for North Wales.
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
We've got Dave Harvey as well—Dave.
, Finance Committee
Financial Implications of the Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Yes, thanks, Chairman. I'll ask my team to introduce themselves. Christian.
