, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I think that's absolutely a fair point, and I'd be really willing to hear from the committee a recommendation that would enable this to be strengthened, whilst also recognising the reality on the ground at the moment. But as you say, and I completely accept…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Absolutely. Sorry, Dave. I'm glad we said the same word. There absolutely is a level of capacity at the moment, but it's not a level to guarantee every child or every school that wanted that experience in Welsh to be available to them. But going back to the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Again, I recognise the blunt language of a piece of legislation perhaps doesn't convey as well as I would like the intention behind that. The reality is at the moment the availability of this provision in Welsh isn't at the level that we need for every school…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
You don't seem convinced, Chair.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Can I do a classic Minister's response to this and say that I can write to the committee if something appropriate comes up, in the first instance?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I'm not sure what the answer is to that. I'm sure committee clerks would love to furnish you with that information. But I'm not sure if my colleagues are able to help either with that particular question, or with some of the points made earlier at all.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I absolutely appreciate the point being made. As a principle, I certainly see nothing wrong at all with providing guidance and then providing what should be in that guidance—I think that's completely appropriate within legislation. And to be really clear on…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Thanks, Adam. You did apologise for being technical, but I don't believe a word of that apology, because I'm sure you love it really when it comes to legislation. Obviously, we've just touched on section 42 in response to Sam Kurtz's questions there, and it…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Can I just comment a little bit further, Chair, as well, on that there? I think this is an important part of the letter I wrote to CYPE as well, which you have a copy of, and in particular the section there that is under 'Placing a statutory duty on local…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Do you want to respond to that at all?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Yes. I think there is some potential misunderstanding between what's laid out in the explanatory memorandum and what the Bill itself sets out. To be clear, the explanatory memorandum doesn't impose any duty, of course; it merely explains what the Bill does…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I'm really sorry, Sam. I was doing a really bad thing of reading my notes whilst I should have been listening to your question. Could you just repeat the question for me again?
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
So, I absolutely, from the outset, Chair, recognise this is an unusual provision to have in a Bill, and recognise that LJC may grapple with this point to a certain extent. I think we're just trying to find a way of ensuring first of all that funding is made…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I think it's ultimately up to the Minister to decide how that's best interpreted and how it's best provided, and I guess, beyond that, it would be for the courts to decide whether a Minister has taken all reasonable steps to deliver what's intended in…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
It sounds like you had quite a good session with the Minister on 22 January, and you'll be aware, of course, of a letter I sent through to the Children, Young People and Education Committee following that session that you had with the Minister. On this…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I wouldn't describe it as inconsistent, because that would also suggest that the delivery of the curriculum is inconsistent; I would describe it as being appropriate for the children or the class that those teachers and headteacher are responsible for. So…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Yes, as you point out, the detail of a definition is within the explanatory memorandum—so, paragraphs 20 and 21 within the EM set that out. And it's open to the Minister to deal with the issue when issuing guidance under section 71A of the Bill, as I've…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
I think it's always a balancing act. I guess it's a fairly standard question that LJC like to ask, and it's a fair question to ask, certainly, as well. So, in terms of this Bill in particular, it's certainly my intention not to try and micromanage what is…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Yes, I do.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
From my side, certainly, there are possible ways in which this could be done, as we've outlined, but it clearly isn't being done at the moment. So, to make sure this is being done, then, my opportunity as a Member, in the Member ballot, is to present primary…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
There's an element of that as well, because, as you'll understand, within the Bill, there are a number of items of guidance that, obviously, will provide some flexibility, perhaps in the way in which things are delivered in practice. But the principle of…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
There's an element of that as well.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Yes. It's futureproofing because primary legislation tends to be fairly certain for at least a decent amount of time, I suppose—so, yes, futureproofing it. And fitting in within other parts of legislation like the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Thanks, Chair. I'll happily bring colleagues in, perhaps, as part of this, as well. I am aware there are provisions in the Curriculum and Assessment (Wales) Act 2021 that give the Welsh Ministers power by regulations to amend areas of learning and experience…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Residential Outdoor Education (Wales) Bill: Evidence Session
Thank you, Chair. Good afternoon, everybody. I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you today. I guess you don't have a huge amount of choice, as it's a piece of legislation. But in terms of the residential outdoor education Bill, whilst I appreciate…
