Petitions Committee

Item 2 on today's agenda, 2.1, P-06-1305, 'Reject proposed 36 extra Members of the Senedd by 2026.'

'Labour and Plaid Cymru propose to extend the present 60 MS to 96 members by 2026. This is a waste of more public money where it can be better used on public services, such as better funding for local councils. With the ongoing cost of living crisis this will result in more waste of public money with the cost of employing 36 members and support staff. I think a vote on this by the Welsh people would be a better idea of democracy at work'.

There is additional information available to Members in their petitions packs, and this was submitted by Gareth John Phillips, with 760 signatures. I would like to bring committee members in at this point to discuss this particular petition and any actions that they may wish to take. I'll bring Luke Fletcher in.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. In terms of where we're at in the Senedd, the majority of parties represented within the Senedd had Senedd reform in their manifestos. And I think with the Bill being introduced into the Senedd, there'll be multiple opportunities for us as Members to scrutinise that work, to debate that work, and to vote either in favour or against that Bill when it comes before the Senedd.

I would be inclined at this point, given the amount of scrutiny that will happen over the coming years, to thank the petitioner for raising this particular issue and to close the petition.

Thank you, Luke. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to follow on from my colleague, Luke Fletcher, here, in the sense that I agree wholeheartedly with what the petitioner is trying to do here; I don't agree with the expansion of the Senedd, and also, I don't agree with changing how Senedd Members are elected in that process. And it would be great to have that referendum. But, as Luke said, I think, with it now coming to the Welsh Parliament in the new year, I think that's the best outcome for the scrutiny rather than as a Petitions Committee. I don't really know what more as a committee we can do on this. So, I agree with Luke in terms of closing it.

Thanks Luke, Joel. Any further comments from Members? We've had a—. Rhys ab Owen.

Thank you, Chair. All I would add—. I agree with the comments of my colleague, Luke Fletcher, and the conclusions of my colleague, Joel James. All I would add is that several committees have discussed this already, and there will be a possibility, through the scrutiny, to offer an amendment with regard to a referendum. So, I would say that that is the place for further discussion with regard to this, not through another committee. Diolch.

Diolch, Rhys. I can see Buffy nodding there in the Rhondda, and I agree, too, with all Members who have spoken. So, we do thank the petitioner, and we'll close the petition on that basis.

Item 2.2, P-06-1307, 'Commit to the adoption of the maintenance of new housing estates by local authorities'.

'The residents of the Mill, a new estate in Canton, Cardiff are having to pay an annual fee of £102 for the maintenance of a park bordering the estate. This payment must be made alongside other maintenance payments covering the unadopted highways, green spaces etc. Residents also must pay the full council tax required. Residents are not provided with a detailed breakdown of the costs of the park, just a notice to say they must pay the fee'.

Again, there is additional information available for Members. This was submitted by Eleri Lewis, with 267 signatures. I'll bring Members in to discuss this petition. Rhys ab Owen.

Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr, Gadeirydd. I should declare an interest. I was involved with promoting this petition, and, in fact, one of the signatories to this petition.

This isn't an isolated incident: this is an issue across Wales, where there is a real lack of transparency with regard to what people have to pay with regard to their management fees. There is also an element of real unfairness. These residents pay the same amount of council tax, but they don't get the same services as their neighbours do—for example, road upkeep, pavement upkeep, the upkeep of parks. There is a real issue here.

We had several debates in the 1970s regarding leasehold, and leasehold in England and Wales went right down from the 1970s, and gave far more powers to residents. I am very concerned that we are going back, at the moment, with many new developments. It's also happening around the corner from the Senedd in many of the apartments there. So, I think that this is something that the Welsh Government needs to look at seriously, and I do note the work that Hefin David has been doing in this Senedd and in the previous Senedd to promote the rights of residents. I would suggest that this is something that we need to look at further, and I would suggest that we do invite Hefin David to share his interest and knowledge with us, and to hear from residents themselves. Diolch yn fawr, Gadeirydd.

Diolch, Rhys. Your declaration of interest and signature has been noted for the record, and clerks have made a note of that too. I certainly wasn't debating leasehold in the 1970s, but I do agree with what you were saying there. Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. Much like you, I don't remember those debates in the 1970s, but, of course, I agree with much of what Rhys has said. For me, it does boil down to that element of fairness here, where residents are paying that service fee but also their council tax and not receiving the same services as other residents. This is an issue as well that I've been dealing with in terms of my regional work in Pencoed and Llanharan. It is widespread across Wales, and I would like to recommend that we do actually undertake an inquiry into this, if at all possible, so that we don't just get Hefin in but we also get, as Rhys has already said, the residents and other potential stakeholders. I know, for example, that my predecessor Dai Lloyd did a lot of work on this when he was elected to this Senedd.

And actually, one other element that I wanted to just raise as a potential for further work, I do recall, some time ago, when I was looking into this myself, there being a fund available via Welsh Government for local authorities to adopt unadopted estates and roads. I'm just wondering if the clerks might be willing to just have a look at that as well. I know they've got a lot of work on already and they're not going to like me very much for suggesting something else, but I hope that the committee would agree that this is quite an important subject for us to get our teeth into.

Thank you, Luke. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to agree with what Rhys and Luke have already said. I definitely think there's scope here to do a further inquiry on this. From my time as a councillor, we had new estates being built then that weren't being adopted by the council, and residents have to pay management fees and everything, and these are going up every year without, really, much recourse for them.

I know that the local government committee is in the process of looking at council tax reform, because I sit on that committee as well, and I did bring it up with them last week during some of the evidence sessions, but I feel that we, as the Petitions Committee, could look more in depth at it, really, rather than just a cursory glance, really, there.

Yes, okay. Thank you, Joel. There have been a number of suggestions there. Could I make a suggestion? Perhaps we look to bring Hefin David in early in the new year, whilst we scope out what an inquiry would look like. I know that there's been lots of work in this area over this Senedd and the previous Senedd. Perhaps Hefin could help us explore that as well. And, on the back of that, we can see what we can do as a committee. Rhys ab Owen.

I agree with that, Chair. I just want to put it on the record, despite your suggestion and perhaps the suggestion of Luke Fletcher, that I wasn't either part of the debate in the 1970s [Laughter.]—I've read about them.

Very much noted, Rhys. So, do Members agree with that? If we look to bring Hefin in in the first instance, when we get time in the new year, and we will scope out what this particular committee could do in this area. Okay. Good.

Item 2.3, P-06-1308, 'Take immediate action to end sexual harassment in ALL Welsh schools, not just secondary schools'.

'The recent Senedd inquiry into sexual harassment in secondary schools has shown the scale of the problem, particularly for girls. The evidence shows that harassment is also rife in primary schools and colleges, and the report recommends further reviews. We can’t wait for yet more inquiries before taking action. The Welsh Government must ensure that the actions taken from the report are immediately extended to cover all settings, keeping learners safe from sexual harassment throughout education'.

There is additional information available to Members in their packs, and this was submitted by Hanna Andersen, with 417 signatures. And I'll bring Members in to discuss this petition now, looking at Buffy Williams.

Diolch, Chair. I'd just like to note that the other committee that I sit on, the Children, Young People and Education Committee, has done a very large piece of work on peer-on-peer sexual harassment within schools, and that piece of work will be fed into the multi-agency action plan that will, hopefully, be published just before Christmas. I definitely understand the petitioner's concerns, reading the actual petition itself. I'm not quite sure where we as a committee can go now with this petition. There is a chance for the petitioner to feed into the multi-agency action plan, if she so wished. But, like I said, I'm not quite sure where we as a committee can go with this, because until the multi-agency action plan has been published, we're not going to know the outcome of the investigations that have taken place over the last year. So, with that in mind, I think we should thank the petitioner and close this petition.

Okay. Diolch yn fawr, Buffy. I'll add to that before we go to other Members. I did raise this particular petition before it actually came to committee for the first time, during the Children, Young People and Education Committee debate on that particular report that you've referred to already. So, it probably is the final point, actually, where this committee could take it. So, I would agree with Buffy, and I can see Members also agreeing. So, we do thank the petitioner for highlighting this important petition, and of course encourage them to input into the multi-agency action plan by the Welsh Government.

Okay, moving on to item 3 on today's agenda, updates to previous petitions, 3.1, P-06-1232, 'Stop the proliferation of intensive poultry units (IPUs) by legislating and introduce a moratorium until this can be achieved'. This was submitted by Gill Marshall, with 5,920 signatures. And I will invite Members to discuss this petition now and any actions they may wish to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I note that one of the last times we discussed this was in October, and we agreed to write to both Powys County Council for a response and also back to the Minister. I know that we've had a response from Powys County Council, and that's been shared with the petitioner and the petitioner has also raised further questions about that, but we haven't had a response from the Minister yet. And I was wondering whether or not we could either wait until we get that response or chase it. And then, once we get that response, we can look at both responses together.

Thank you, Joel. There were, I think, two suggestions there. I think the first was to wait for the response. I'm minded to go with that for now, given that this is our last session of the term. Gareth.

Yes, because it's our last meeting of the term, that's why we brought this one without waiting for the other one. We expect the other one within the next couple of weeks and, certainly by our January meeting, that should be possible.

On that note, then, we'll wait until we receive the response, and if we haven't received it by the January meeting, then we could encourage the Welsh Government to do so. Luke Fletcher wanted to come in.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. Apologies for coming in at the last minute there. I'm just wondering, in terms of some of the questions the petitioners raised in relation to Powys's response, while we're waiting for the Welsh Government's response, is there anything we can do in terms of coming back to Powys with some of those questions?

I'm not sure what the response will be from the Welsh Government, but the Welsh Government may address some of those items, so I don't want to duplicate work at this given time. That's what I'm hopeful of, anyway. But I note that suggestion.

We move on to item 3.2, P-06-1269, 'Don't let the plan run out for dying people in Wales'. This was submitted by Marie Curie and MNDA, with 2,195 signatures. We've considered this a number of times. I'm aware the petitioners have been in constant communication with the clerking team as well. I will bring Members in now to discuss. Buffy Williams.

Diolch, Chair. Can I say, firstly, a big 'thank you' to the clerking team who have done so much work on this, and also to committee members who have really pushed this petition forward? I also met with the petitioners outside the Senedd, and it's been a great pleasure of mine to meet with Marie Curie and the MNDA throughout this entire process. I'm really pleased that it's had so much positive engagement as well. I've seen on social media that there's been so much positivity surrounding this petition, and I think it's really important that the people who have been pushing this forward take some recognition for all the good work they've done too.

Again, I'm loathe to close this petition because I really want to see the outcome. I know the Minister is taking positive steps and engaging with Marie Curie and the MNDA, but, for me, I think we've started this now and we should see it through to the end with the petitioners. So, I'd like, if possible, if we can leave the petition open and revisit it in the spring just so that we see that there are still positive steps being taken with this petition. Like I said, we've been there from the beginning with this petition, and I think it's really important that we see it through now right to the end.

Thank you for that, Buffy. I can see nodding on the screens and I can also see nodding in the committee room. In particular, thanks for mentioning the hard work of the clerking team, which we're also always very grateful for. On that note, we will go with your suggestion and move on.

Item 3.3, P-06-1270, 'Make October 21st an official Memorial Day for those killed and affected by the Aberfan Disaster'. This was submitted by Claire Davies with 53 signatures. This is our second time considering this, but I will ask Members to discuss this now and any actions. Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. I think the difficulty with this one—. I fully support the idea, but I think the difficulty is, though, in terms of the powers to designate national holidays; that still remains with UK Government. I believe the Welsh Government are considering bringing this into their discussions with UK Government in the future, which I think is a positive step. Meanwhile, of course, there's still that opportunity as well to remember the events at Aberfan as part of the Welsh National and Universal Mining Memorial Garden. It's commemorated there. I think, at this point, because the powers lie with UK Government, we should thank the petitioner and close the petition, purely based on the fact that powers don't lie with Welsh Government, and so there's very little that we can do now as a Senedd Petitions Committee to further the case for this.

Diolch yn fawr, Luke. Without getting into a debate on the powers and responsibilities of certain institutions, I think everyone would agree with the spirit of this petition—actually, I think that was noted the last time it came to this Senedd. We will have to close. I can see Members agreeing with your suggestion to close. But I think the petition submitted by Claire Davies has made an impact, if this is going to be part of a future conversation that the Welsh Government may have with UK Government. So, certainly highlighting it is still a success, if not exactly what we would all like to see.

Item 3.4, P-06-1272, 'Ban the use of "no pet clauses" in tenancy agreements in Wales'. This was submitted by Sam Swash, with 857 signatures. Before I bring Members in to discuss this further, I do declare an interest: I know Sam relatively well from the local area. He's in my constituency. I know Sam, so I will remove myself from making any decision on this particular petition. If it went to a vote, I would only let members of the committee vote. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr. I note the work that you did as a committee, before my joining, and that the clerking team has done on this matter. I also note the enforcement of the Renting Homes (Wales) Act 2016 on 1 December, which means that a no-pet clause can be challenged under the Consumer Rights Act 2015. My concern with regard to this is that people aren't aware of their rights; people aren't aware of the new right that follows the enforceability of the renting homes Act. I think it is worth us waiting to see whether the Local Government and Housing Committee discuss this. I wouldn't suggest closing it at this point, because it's a very important matter that is raised regularly in all our postboxes, and people have very, very strong feelings towards their pets. One constituent told me only last week, 'A pet is a company to me. Otherwise, I'd be very alone.' So, I think it's something we should discuss further if the Local Government and Housing Committee don't take it on. Certainly I would encourage the Welsh Government to consider how to promote the new rights that the enforceability of the renting homes Act has created. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, Rhys. Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. In terms of what Rhys has laid out with the renting homes Act, I think it's actually an issue within the tenant sector anyway in terms of tenants knowing their rights when dealing with their landlords. I have no doubt that Acorn, the tenants union, will do everything they can to help increase knowledge around what tenants' rights are around this specific issue. I think there's a lot more that Welsh Government can do as well.

Of course, I think this petition in itself has been quite successful. Not only now do we hope that the Local Government and Housing Committee will look at this, but it has been raised number of times in the Chamber. I myself put forward a Member's legislative proposal on this issue.

So, I would agree with what Rhys has recommended, that we wait for the Local Government and Housing Committee's forward work plan. But I would also want to note as well that I think that this has been a successful petition in itself in terms of raising awareness of the issue here in the Senedd.

Thank you, Luke. I think I might have signed your Member's debate, actually. Given what Rhys has said in his contribution, perhaps there is a question for the committee in the meantime to ask the Welsh Government what they are doing to increase awareness of people's rights with regard to the Renting Homes (Wales) Act. Are Members content with that? I can see all Members are content with those suggestions.

Item 3.5, P-06-1289, 'Agree 105 day occupancy, not 182 days, to distinguish holiday let businesses from second homes'. This was submitted by Linda Davies, with 3,332 signatures. I will look to bring Members in now. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. I know that we've discussed this quite a bit as a Petitions Committee, and also in the Chamber. I know from the recent responses we've had from the Minister they've been quite firm on this now, but they have stated that it will be an issue that's continually monitored, if any changes are needed that the levers will be pulled, as they say, to address it. I think, as a Petitions Committee, that is probably the best we could have hoped for. So, I'm thinking that it's probably best now just to thank the petitioner and close it.

Thank you, Joel. I can see no other comments from Members. Are Members are in agreement? Yes.

Item 3.6, P-06-1292, 'Make Welsh public sector organisations report scope 3 emissions and include them in net zero targets'. This was submitted by Dylan Clarke, with 339 signatures. I will look to bring Members in. To the Rhondda, over to Buffy Williams.

Diolch, Chair. I'm aware that the petition was shared with the climate change committee and they have now concluded they are going to be doing a piece of work around decarbonisation. So, I think that now this work has started, there's no further, really, we can take this as a committee. I think we should thank the petitioner for highlighting these issues and close this petition, because, as a Petitions Committee, I can see nowhere further that we can take this.

Thank you, Buffy, for that. I can see Members are in agreement, so we will certainly feed our work to date to the committee team for the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee for them to undertake their inquiry work in the future.

Item 3.7, P-06-1293, 'Provide funding for universal access to Fracture Liaison Services (FLS)'. This was submitted by Delyth Evans MBE, with 431 signatures. I will bring Members in to discuss this final petition of the day, looking to Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. I can see that the Minister has clarified that there'll be now work undertaken by Government around improving access to fracture liaison services. I can also see that the petitioner has no further comments since we had the response from the Welsh Government. So, at this stage, I think we should thank the petitioner and close it.

Thank you, Luke, for that. I can see all Members are in agreement with the suggested action there.

That brings us on to item 4. It does conclude public business today. We will go into private session now to discuss our work for the rest of this year and our forward work programme into 2023. Can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), that the committee does now resolve to meet in private for the remainder of today's meeting? Are Members happy? They are content.

We will be back on 9 January 2023. I know avid Senedd.tv petition watchers will be missing us, but I do wish everyone a very good Christmas. Nadolig Llawen. Of course, before we sign off, a big thank you to our clerking team and the teams behind the scenes, in particular, who make our jobs a lot easier, and also extended thanks from me as Chair to committee members. So, see you in the new year. Meeting closed.