Petitions Committee

We'll begin today's meeting with a number of new petitions, the first being petition 2.1, P-06-1232, 'Stop the proliferation of intensive poultry units (IPUs) by legislating and introduce a moratorium until this can be achieved'. The petition was created by Gill Marshall, has collected 5,920 signatures, and the petition reads:

'There are many intensive poultry units in Wales. Powys has the unfortunate reputation of being one of the IPU hot spots. There have been 147 IPU applications granted by PCC. IPUs bring with them many issues including pollution of rivers and land, smell, ammonia, traffic, 24x7 noise and light. To many, the practice of intensive poultry production is cruel and unnecessary. Despite many villages being blighted by these units there is still nothing being done to stop them. We need our politicians to act.'

I'll now open this petition to the committee for discussion, and I'll hand over to Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. When I was reading the briefing for this, I noticed it was quite a complex issue in itself. I think it's worth us acknowledging that. There is a need, I think, for clear guidance as well. I think, as a Petitions Committee, it's worth while us not just contacting the Government, and potentially Powys County Council as it was named in the text of the petition, but starting with considering what we can ask the Minister and whether there was a summit at the Royal Welsh Show. I wouldn't mind have a progress update on that and what's happened since then, as well as some further detail on a consultation on the technical advice note on agricultural development.

As for Powys County Council, I think it would be worth while us also writing to them asking how they'd considered the cumulative impact of intensive poultry units in the planning process, as well as a response to the concern raised by the petitioner regarding the lack of transparency in the whole process, and whether an environmental survey had been undertaken to understand the impacts of IPUs in Powys. There's quite a long list of requests there, but hopefully the committee will agree.

Yes. Are Members content to go with Luke's recommendations? Yes. Thank you. We'll now move on to the next petition, which is item 2.2, P-06-1286, 'To ensure treatment and screening for cancer continues during COVID19'. The petition was created by Ellie-may Sharpe, has collected 50 signatures, and reads:

'To ensure all people struggling with cancer receive timely treatment and have equal chances of fighting cancer wherever they live in Wales. It is also essential to support families who have family members with cancer.'

I'll open this petition up for discussion, and we'll go to Altaf, please.

Hello, Chair. Thank you very much. I think it's a very important petition, and I quite agree that we should have the treatment and screening of these patients, because we should not be losing a day not treating them or diagnosing them. So, it is important that it should go to the Minister as soon as possible to see what she has to say.

Okay. Luke, have you got any comments?

No, I haven't. I'm in agreement.

Yes. All Members in agreement? Yes.

Yes.

Thank you, Altaf. Our next petition is item 2.3, P-06-1289, 'Agree 105 day occupancy, not 182 days, to distinguish holiday let businesses from second homes'. The petition was created by Linda Davies, has collected 3,332 signatures, and reads:

'As part of its tax policy to limit the number of second homes, Welsh Government wishes to better distinguish between legitimate furnished holiday lets and second homes. The draft Order, despite contrary advice from its own consultation, raises the level of occupancy required for business status from 70 to 182. This is unachievable for most FHLs, which will either close or be reclassfied as second homes as a result. We propose a threshold of 105 days, a 50% rise, in line with HMRC definitions.'

I'll open this petition up for discussion, and I'll come to Luke, please.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. I think this is a bit of a tricky one for us as a committee, given that a lot has already been discussed in the Chamber. We know that the legislation is already in force. There was a motion presented to the Senedd to annul the legislation. That was debated; it was rejected in the Chamber. It's difficult as well, because I think the Minister has made her view very clear on this. As I said, I think there's been ample debate in the Chamber around this issue and nothing has changed as a result of that debate. So, as a committee, I think it's one of those things where it's quite difficult for us to go any further with this one, unfortunately. I think all the avenues have already been travelled down.

So, is the recommendation to close this petition?

I think, unfortunately, it's one of those occasions where we might have to close this petition, but, of course, thank the petitioner for raising this issue.

Okay. Are we all in agreement?

Yes.

Yes. We can close this petition. Our next petition today is 2.4, P-06-1290, 'Enable Welsh residents to access an NHS "Right to Choose" diagnosis pathway for ADHD'. This petition was created by Sienna-Mae Jade Yates, has collected 383 signatures, and reads:

'Unlike England, there is currently no "Right to Choose" in Wales to enable individuals to select the hospital or service they would like to have their NHS treatment. The Right to Choose within mental health services in England has been in place since 2018 allowing adults seeking an assessment for ADHD the opportunity to choose an alternative provider should they decide the waiting time for their NHS assessment is too long. Welsh residents are being discriminated against for being in Wales.'

I'll invite Members to discuss this petition, and we'll go to Altaf, please.

Chair, I quite agree with this. This discrimination should not be there and, I don't know—. We should be sending this to the Welsh Government for their response. They have a right to have this diagnosis, pathway and treatment, as we have in the rest of the United Kingdom.

Okay. Luke, have you got any—?

Yes, I'd agree with much of what Altaf has said there. I think that there is scope for us, as a committee, given that this will be quite specialised, to write to the Chair of the Health and Social Care Committee to highlight this petition and the issues raised, and see where that committee can take this. But I think that, because of the fact that it is quite specialised, as a Petitions Committee, in ourselves, it would be another petition for us to close and thank the petitioner. But I do think that we should write to the Chair of the health committee to take this issue further.

Okay, so, we'll close this petition, but we'll write and then we can send that information on to the petitioner. Yes. All in agreement? Yes.

The next petition that we have is 2.5, P-06-1292, 'Make Welsh public sector organisations report scope 3 emissions and include them in net zero targets'. This petition was created by Dylan Clarke, has collected 339 signatures, and reads:

'Include all emissions associated with public sector investments in Welsh government decarbonisation targets and make reporting investment emissions (scope 3) mandatory for all Welsh public sector organisations.

'Local authorities are aiming for net zero by 2030 while investing in companies that plan to extract fossil fuels for decades.

'Welsh public sector organisations are not currently required to report on emissions associated with investments! This is a loophole that needs closing.'

I invite Members to comment on this petition, and I'll go to Luke, please.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. I was wondering if we could write to the Minister on this one, asking about how the Government will know that the public sector has reached its net-zero target, because in the briefing papers there seems to be no clarity on the public sector's full carbon footprint in the first place. So, it will be interesting to know how the Government would look to measure this, and as well how they would be able to consistently measure this in the future. I think that it's also worth us writing to the Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee to highlight this. I know that they have done a lot of work on net zero, and I think that this might feed into that work quite well.

Okay. The next petition that we have is 2.6, P-06-1293, 'Provide funding for universal access to Fracture Liaison Services (FLS)'. The petition was created by Delyth Evans MBE, has collected 431 signatures, and reads:

'The Welsh Government should commit to 100% coverage of quality-assured Fracture Liaison Services (FLS). FLS is the world-standard for treating osteoporosis and preventing fractures, yet access is a postcode lottery. This means thousands of people living on the wrong side of a catchment line will suffer life-changing spinal and hip fractures. The Welsh Government can transform the picture through a clear strategic direction from the top, backed with modest funding for FLS and sensible incentives.'

I invite Members to speak on this, and I'll go across to Altaf, please.

Thank you, Chair. It's quite interesting that when I was an orthopaedic surgeon, we had different pathways in place, treating these osteoporotic fractures. I am sure that each health board will have a pathway for treating these patients. I'm not sure what's happening at present and why this has come forward, and what is the opinion of the Welsh Government on how they are treating. There has to be some way to help these patients who have generalised osteoporosis, whether it will be the diagnosis, whether it will be the treatment, but they have to be on the path. It is very important to have their bones very strong, so that stumbling doesn't give them a fracture. So, I quite agree with this, but we need to know, with different health boards, what their pathway is like.

Thank you, Altaf. Luke.

Yes, I'm in agreement with Altaf. I'll take his lead on this, given he's a former doctor. I think it would be worth getting in touch with Welsh Government to see what they're doing on this issue.

Can I just clarify? Altaf, are you suggesting that we write to all of the trusts on this one? Or just to the Welsh Government?

[Inaudible.]—model, because this is throughout Wales. We have a lot of patients who have osteoporosis, and we need to see whether they have a uniform policy. And if there's not a uniform policy, then it can go to the Welsh Government to have a uniform policy throughout the whole of Wales, so that patients don't have to really suffer.

So, are we writing to the Minister to check that there is a national policy?

I think that might be a good idea, yes. Thank you very much.

Okay.

Okay. Thank you, Altaf.

And the next petition we have today is petition 2.7, P-06-1294, 'Don't leave metastatic breast cancer patients in Wales behind'. The petition was created by Tassia Haines, has gathered 14,106 signatures, and reads:

'People living with metastatic breast cancer (MBC) in Wales are being badly let down by the system. Currently, Wales has just one dedicated secondary breast cancer clinical nurse specialist (CNS), a situation that leaves potentially hundreds of people without adequate support. We need to know how many people are living with MBC to improve services. And we want improve quality of life outcomes by raising awareness of MBC red flag symptoms.

'We are calling for:

'1. Every person with Metastatic breast cancer (MBC) in Wales to have access to a dedicated secondary breast cancer clinical nurse specialist.

'2. A collection of data of those living and being treated for MBC in Wales.

'We have written an open letter to the Minister for Health and Social Services on behalf of metastatic breast cancer patients and their carers to show the need for improved quality of life and more support for those living with MBC.'

I'm pleased to see that Tassia is here today. Thank you very much for joining us. I'll open this petition now for debate, and I'll go across to Luke, please.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. I really appreciate Tassia coming here today, and for campaigning as well on this particular issue, highlighting it with the committee. Given that the petition has reached that 10,000 mark, I would like to suggest that we recommend to the Business Committee that this be debated in the Chamber.

Yes.

Hopefully they'll be able to consider that in tomorrow's meeting, but I think this is one of those petitions that should be debated in the Chamber.

I agree. Altaf, do you have a comment?

I quite agree with you, because we have listened to many patients that have many complaints about this. So, I do agree wholeheartedly with this.

Okay. So, we will write to the Business Committee and ask for a debate. Thank you.

We'll get that sent off today so that they can discuss that tomorrow.

Thank you. And thank you again for joining us. Thank you.

And now we have the last of today's new petitions, petition 2.8, P-06-1295, 'Hold a public poll on the reduction of the default speed limit BEFORE it comes in to force'. This petition was created by Mark Baker, has collected 1,646 signatures, and reads:

'I think that the Welsh Government must hold a public poll on this change as it will affect everyone! There is no proven evidence that it will save lives or reduce pollution. There is evidence to support it increasing the amount of emissions being put into the air as cars are not designed to be driven at this speed! Motorists are always being targeted and it’s about time pedestrians are hit with some accountability! People in Wales are living in a democracy, hold a public poll on this proposal.'

I'll invite Members to comment on this petition, and I'll go to Luke again if that's okay.

Yes, of course. Diolch, Cadeirydd. Looking at the whole debate around this particular issue, I think I'm right in saying that what is being proposed by the Deputy Minister isn't a blanket reduction in speed per se; it's to give flexibility to local authorities to reduce the average speed limit within their local authority area—especially important given that local authorities best know their areas as well.

The legislation has already been improved, and I think the Minister, as well, has made his position very clear. I don't see what else that we as a committee can do. I think, given that the legislation has passed, now that it's more in the hands of local authorities, it'd be worth the petitioner getting in touch with their local authority regarding this issue, rather than us on this occasion, unfortunately. I think it's one of those petitions where we're going to have close it, but, of course, thank the petitioner. I just think now that the debate has progressed and it's happened in the Chamber, it's difficult for us to get the Minister, especially when he's so adamant on his position, to make a u-turn.

Okay. Altaf.

No, I agree with Luke, really. This is now in the communities, and we don't know which of those roads are good enough for 20 mph. It should be done by them; they should get in touch with their local authority and put some questions there. They should have a map of their own locality and of where they'll have these 20 mph zones introduced.

Okay. Shall we close this petition then? Yes. Are we all content to close the petition? Yes.

Now, we move on to updates to previous petitions. The first one we come to is 3.1, P-06-1163, 'Extend the postgraduate STEMM bursary to all MSc students in Wales'. The petition was submitted by Rachel Wrathall and accumulated 88 signatures. I'd firstly like to thank our Chair, the Chair of the Petitions Committee, Jack Sargeant, who has worked tirelessly on this petition for a long time. I know that it has come to us many times in the committee, and it's been something that Jack has cared quite dearly about. But, I think, as a committee, this is as far, now, as we can go with this petition. So, I think we should thank the petitioner and close. Luke.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. I would tend to agree, but I know, of course, that Jack has done a lot of work on it. I'm wondering if it might be worth us just deferring it until he's back on the committee.

I'm more than happy to do that. Can we do that? Yes. Okay. And the next petition is item 3.2, P-06-1218, 'Notify all 18 year olds who have been under social care the right to request their personal information'. The submitter is Victoria Pritchard and the signatures accumulated were 260. I invite Members to discuss the petition and any actions that the committee wishes to take. I'll come to you first, Altaf.

Since it has been discussed previously, Luke might know more about it.

Okay. Luke.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. As a committee, we've looked at this issue and other issues within this area quite extensively. I think it's worth noting on this particular petition that the Minister has written to all local authorities, and the heads of social services within those local authorities, reiterating the importance of transparency for those who are in care and their ability to access their private information from when they were in care. I'm really grateful to the petitioner for highlighting this. I found our work on this very interesting and very informative, but I think we're at a point now where we've taken it as far as we can go, and would like to thank the petitioner for raising this issue, but to close the petition.

Okay. Are we all in agreement to close this petition?

Yes.

Yes. And I'd also like to thank the petitioner, Victoria, as well for submitting this petition. I think it's something, like Luke said, we've all cared dearly about and done quite a lot of work on. So, yes.

The next petition is 3.3, P-06-1228, 'Give secondary teachers a bonus for marking and standardizing summer 2021 official assessments'. The submitter is Lisa M. Williams, and the petition gathered 1,252 signatures. And I'll come to Luke again, if possible, because I know this is a petition that we've looked at in the past.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. Yes, this is one that we as a committee have pursued quite a bit through correspondence with the Minister. I think this was raised about a year ago now. I think the Minister's response has been quite clear on where he stands—he doesn't intend to introduce a payment at all. Unfortunately, I think this means that we're at the end of the road with this particular petition. I would like to thank the petitioner for putting in this petition and bringing it to our attention, but, unfortunately, I think we're going to have to close it now. I think we've taken it as far as we can.

I'm in agreement. Altaf, are you in agreement?

I just want to be clear, is this happening in Scotland—compensation bonus or equivalent?

Not that I'm aware of.

They have done it in Scotland.

They have done it in Scotland.

Yes, but it's slightly different.

Yes, it's slightly different. But I think the important part now, when considering the petition, is that, as a committee, I think we've come as far as we can, but I do think that there is scope for us as Members to question Welsh Government on this further. Altaf's right, there is a similar payment in Scotland, slightly different—I don't propose that we go into it now. But I think this is something that we as individual Members now will have to pursue outside the committee.

Take it to the Chamber floor.

Yes.

Okay. So, we're all content to close this petition. Yes.

The next petition is 3.4, P-06-1242, 'Improve Endometriosis Healthcare in Wales'. The submitter is Beth Hales, and this petition gathered 5,895 signatures. This petition, I think, has played a vitally important role in raising awareness of endometriosis and endometriosis care in Wales, or lack thereof. The petitioner has sent in another group of questions for the Minister to answer, and I would like to keep this petition open and submit these questions to the Minister for answer and then come back to this petition again. Because, as I said, there are still thousands of women waiting for endometriosis care and diagnosis, and I think it's vitally important that we as a committee continue to talk about this on the Chamber floor, raise awareness, and use this petition as a means to support women with getting the correct care that they need. So, are we content to keep the petition open? Luke?

Diolch, Cadeirydd. I completely agree with you on that point. I'm just wondering if it's worth seeing if the health committee have any scope to look into this as well, just in terms of them being the specialised committee. But I agree with you, I think we should keep it open, and wait for answers to those questions before we go further.

Can we write to the health committee? Yes, that's something we can do. Fantastic. Thank you.

And the next petition is—. Sorry, Altaf.

I have read about the suggestion of two options. Option 1 is where you could write back to the Minister, asking the questions posed by the petitioner, and fair treatment for women, including the petitioner's offer to work with them to inform future policies. I thought that that was a good one.

Okay.

Because option 1 is quite good and quite healthy; they get the data and decide about future policy.

Okay. Thank you, Altaf.

The next petition is 3.5, P-06-1262, 'Welsh Government to hold a public inquiry into decisions taken by them before & during the pandemic'. The submitter was Anna-Louise Marsh-Rees, and the signatures gathered were 2,116. I'll open this petition to debate, and come across to Luke.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. I think it's been quite difficult for me to separate my committee hat from my personal hat, really. If we think about what happened about a week or two ago now with comments saying that families had moved on from this particular issue, I mean, they're completely untrue, and I'm saying that as somebody who hasn't moved on myself, as someone who has a number of questions around what happened to a member of my own family during the pandemic. So, I think it's important that we make clear that people haven't moved on from this. I think people still want answers, and people still want it to be done in a Welsh context, where Welsh Government made those decisions, where they talked about doing things differently.

But, putting my committee hat on as well, and removing the personal from it for the time being, I think, now, given what we've done as a committee so far and given that the First Minister still hasn't been convinced, I find it difficult to know what we as a committee can do. Again, I think this is one of those issues now that we as individual Members will have to take up. I certainly will be taking it up, and, to reiterate, people haven't moved on from this; I haven't moved on from it. But, again, I think it's about knowing what the committee has the capacity to do now.

We could wait and see what happens with the UK inquiry, and let that play out. My fear would be that that could be two or three years—I don't know what the reporting date is, but it's not soon, is it, so we wouldn't be coming back to it soon.

I think this is a very emotive subject that has touched everybody. I'd be quite happy to leave this petition open. I don't know how the Chair feels, and I know that you say it's two or three years, but, for me, I'd rather wait the two or three years and give people the answers that they want rather than close the petition.

I agree. It's difficult to know what exactly we can do to intervene at this point—

Yes, it is, apart from bringing it to the Chamber.

—but, I would agree that we should keep it open. I'm not going to be shutting up about it. But, I think it's worth us at least seeing how this plays out.

I agree. Altaf.

I think you're right, Chair. Wales does need an independent review and investigation if deaths in Wales could have been prevented. Now, our duty is to scrutinise this all, but nothing has come forward yet, and since we don't know what has been happening, that is, investigations about this, of the Welsh Government and probably other kinds of committees, and what they're saying, the petition that we have received, we agree with, but we have, at present, nothing to look at.

Okay. Thank you, Altaf. As I said, I think this is a very emotive subject, and I agree with Luke that it's for Members now to discuss this on the Chamber floor. But, if we could leave the petition open, then.

Can we put a date on it, to come back to it? It would help us in terms of administering it.

There's no date on the end of the inquiry at all, is there?

No, there's not.

So, in that case, I wonder if it's worth us saying that we will come back to this in, perhaps, a year's time.

A year's time—yes.

Or, if something happens before then, that we come back to it and that we see where we're at.

I just don't want us to forget about it, so having a date when we come back to it would be really helpful.

Yes, exactly.

The next petition is 3.6, P-06-1269, 'Don't let the plan run out for dying people in Wales'. The submitter is Marie Curie & Motor Neurone Disease Association. It has accumulated 2,195 signatures. Again, this is a very important and emotive subject. I've met with Marie Curie & MNDA on more than one occasion, as I know Luke and Altaf have, because they've attended the Senedd numerous times since I've been in position. So, I know that they've given extra questions and they've looked at updating their programme.

I think we should write to the Welsh Government with follow-up questions regarding the capacity and timescale for the end-of-life plan. I think that we, as a committee, again, can call on the Chamber floor for this to be happening also. But I think we should leave this petition open until we have answers for the petitioner. Are we in agreement? Yes.

The next petition is item 3.7, P-06-1271, 'Acquire the land from Network Rail on which ATR884 runs as a permissive path and arrange maintenance'. The submitter is Rosanne Stirman, and the signatures accumulated were 330. I'll go across to Luke for this one.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. I probably should mention that I know Ros. It seems like this has progressed now, that there are discussions going on with Network Rail as well as explorations into any potential legal issues down the line and engagement with stakeholders. So, by the looks of it, we can chalk this up as a potential victory for the petitioner. I'd like to congratulate the petitioner on that and, as well, given that we can't go any further with this now, and given that it looks like it's a potential win for her, close the petition.

Are we all in agreement? Yes. The power of petitions.

The next one is item 3.8, P-06-1272, 'Ban the use of 'no pet clauses' in tenancy agreements in Wales'. The submitter was Sam Swash, and signatures accumulated were 857. I'll come across again to Luke for this, please.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. This is also a topic that I submitted a motion on; I submitted a motion before the summer recess to discuss this. There was disagreement between myself and the Minister on this, but there is scope for us to have further conversations around this issue. It isn't, necessarily, just a problem within the private rented sector—it's also a problem when we talk about homeless shelters as well and people who are homeless being refused access to shelters if they have a pet. On the back of that, I think it would be worth the committee writing to the Local Government and Housing Committee to ask if they can consider this as part of their inquiry into homelessness as a starting point. I think the committee could also write back to the Minister highlighting some of the concerns that those without a tenancy agreement are not afforded any protection and to ask what steps the Welsh Government is taking to address this issue.

So, shall we leave this petition open? Yes. And then we can take those steps. Thank you.

The next petition is item 3.9, P-06-1274, 'Stop the removal of the Rapid Response Vehicle for Monmouth'. The submitter was Lorraine Allman, and the signatures acquired were 3,311. I'll come across to Luke again—sorry, Luke—because they're previous petitions and we’ve seen them before.

I noted that the Welsh ambulance service is being quite clear on the work that they've done in modelling their services, but I also note as well the petitioner disputes some of the data that has been used in the work of modelling. I think the petitioner has specifically highlighted the risk of loss of a rapid-response vehicle in Monmouthshire through the petition and doesn't feel that it has been addressed yet. There has been work done. There has been open communication, including a meeting on that front. I'm struggling to see where we, as a committee, can go with this. Because it's quite an area-specific one, I would suggest that it might be for Members representing that area to take further, rather than this committee. Looking at the correspondence we've had throughout this petition being before the committee, I am struggling to see where we go, so I would suggest that we thank the petitioner and close it.

Okay. Are we in agreement?

Chair, there's a good number of signatures here—3,311. I wonder whether the committee could put some recommendation here. It is coming to an end, but there should be some, I think, recommendation on our part that we could send to the Welsh Government.

I'm not entirely sure where else we can go as a committee with this petition. As Luke said, I'm—. Luke.

I recall Peter Fox doing some work on this in his capacity as local representative. I think that's why, potentially, with this petition, my view would be that it's more for local members. This is quite a localised issue now. We've done what we can on our end to try and facilitate some correspondence. I don't want to keep a petition open indefinitely if we can't do anything else on it. I don't think it's fair on the petitioner; I don't think it's fair on anybody. So, I think it would be worth, potentially, us as individual members having a brief discussion with Peter to see what's going on there. But as a committee, I think we're in the position now where there's not much more we can do, and that we should look to thank the petitioner for highlighting the issue and close the petition.

Okay. We'll close the petition.

That concludes the public business. We will now go into private session to discuss our work over the coming term. So, I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42, that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting. Are Members content? I can see Members are. Thank you.