, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 7
Good morning. You've made some coherent arguments about agricultural emissions being responsible for more than a quarter of particle pollution in cities, and that is not always appreciated. We heard cogent evidence from the environmental organisations earlier…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Fine, thank you.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
I just wanted to pick up with NRW the point about not introducing penalty notices until improvements to public transport and active travel infrastructure are in place. However, in the case of vehicle idling, I just want to make sure you're not arguing that we…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay, thank you. I think I'll hand back to the Chair.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay. So, NRW, obviously, you have a big role in all this. We're clearly not meeting the nitrogen oxide targets. How can we strengthen the monitoring in order to enable us to identify where we've got to put in more activity?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Yes. Perhaps it's not so much your area of expertise, because you're presumably—. Your organisations are involved in gathering data, are they?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay. I'll stick with you, Jenny. This is my last question to all of you, which is: how adequate are the current arrangements for monitoring and reporting air quality data? Because this is key to ensuring that we don't just have words on the page, we actually…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Hello, Jenny Hawley.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay. So, at the moment, the Bill gives the powers to Welsh Ministers to revoke or lower targets, and whilst I wouldn't have concerns with the current leadership, Governments change, so surely this is a get-out clause.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
I'll speed up.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay. So, it makes good sense, I would argue, to set the targets in regulations, because then you can strengthen them when new information becomes available. But, at the moment, there's no requirement on Welsh Government to consult with stakeholders prior to…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
No, it's all right.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
So, the Minister's arguing that we don't yet know whether it's possible to achieve the WHO guidelines everywhere across Wales, and by when this could be achievable. This seems a bit of a weak argument to me, and I wonder if that's something that you've had…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Thank you. That's useful. Just to go back to Haf, you're calling for air quality targets to be consistent with WHO guidelines. Can you explain why you don't think the Bill already makes that commitment?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Thank you.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Thank you. And in relation to ammonia as well, why is the Minister arguing that there is insufficient data to set a target?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
So, why, then, is the Minister arguing that it wouldn't be possible in the short term, due to a lack of data?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay. Thank you for that information. So, just moving on to—. I'll come back to you, but just moving on to Friends of the Earth's argument that we need to set a target for nitrogen dioxide, can you just expand on your paper, really, as to why we wouldn't be—?…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Yes. Sorry—go on.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay. So, it's a work in progress. Okay. Can I just—?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay. I just want to pursue this issue with NRW, because, obviously, you're both adviser and enforcer on behalf of the Welsh Government. We had some concessions from the Minister for rural affairs in the discussions about the Agriculture (Wales) Bill 2022…
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay. In the context of the biodiversity crisis, it seems reckless, does it not, to not tackle this?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Okay, so just turning to your arguments for doing this, clearly, it's good news for brambles and nettles, but very bad news for lots of other species. But the main source of ammonia is presumably the poo from cows. Is that right?
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
You think it is possible to set metrics for these targets. Okay.
, Climate Change, Environment, and Infrastructure Committee
The Environment (Air Quality and Soundscapes) (Wales) Bill - evidence session 6
Thank you, and thank you for your written evidence. I just want to turn to what the Bill is doing and what the Bill is not doing. You make some coherent arguments in your papers that just limiting targets for PM2.5 is insufficient. Could I ask Jenny Hawley…
