, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, that's a philosophical question, isn't it, because I as a Minister am yielding powers to the commission so that the commission can deal in a different way, an alternative way, with these issues. But on the other hand, we have a process within the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, the whole principle of the Bill—. If we, as a Government, wanted to keep hold of all these powers, we wouldn't create a commission and transfer almost all of the powers with regard to further education to the commission. So, that's the fundamental…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, we've discussed this in other contexts. You're entirely right to say that we need to ensure that the process that we have of designing and providing apprenticeships is appropriate. And the powers in the Bill replace those in the 2009 Act. And the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
These bodies that do collaborate collaborate with bodies that are subject to the control of the commission already, so that is the scenario we describe here. What the commission does is ensure that there is a right to transfer those funds on. But you're…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
It provides Ministers with the opportunity of extending the monitoring duty to other kinds of tertiary education providers. I think this might, for example, be used for providers delivering apprenticeships who are not registered and who the commission might…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Just to be clear, when we talk about taking these out of the Bill, but accepting that they may be needed in future, what we're really saying is that it would be acceptable for us to require primary legislation to make these changes in future. That's the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
These are regulations that provide for saving provisions, basically—transition provisions—where the relationship between a provider and the register changes. So, moving between categories, for example. So, they will be very specific. They'll be very localised…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, I suppose the point is inferred in your question, really, when you said 'other than higher education providers'. The Bill needs to provide the commission with the tools to regulate the entire sector. As we sit here today, the sector is funded through…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I think it is, in a sense, the same point as I just mentioned. Currently, the intention is for there to be two categories, but, obviously, the point of a reform is to enable the commission to lead on change into the future. So, it provides that mechanism for…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I'm just going to refer back to the point I touched on at the start, if I may. I mean, this is a process of striking the balance, isn't it, between prescription and permission, if I can put it like that, and from the point of view of the regulator, a…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, if you look across the whole Bill, there are other examples to the contrary as well—where the current process uses the negative procedure, and the Bill now has reflected exactly those similar steps with similar powers but within the affirmative…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, I wouldn't put it in quite that same way, if I may say so. In this specific example, you're right, of course, to say that it has changed from the situation that was seen in the 1992 Act. It's the context that's important in this regard. If you look at…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, yes, that's the intention. The duties are defined, of course, in the Bill as well. It will be a matter for the courts, of course, but, from my point of view, I don't see that this would create individual rights for individuals, but it does ensure target…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, the context for that decision, if I can place it in its wider context for a moment—it's, hopefully, useful. When I became a Minister, it was an opportunity to look again at the Bill and I felt at the time, because the context had changed even from the…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
It isn’t the universal justification—there is a range of justifications for the powers on their own terms, if you like. But I think since we are—. The very premise of the Bill involves the Government handing over considerable new powers to an arm’s-length…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, in a sense, Chair, all of these are fine judgments on one level, aren't they, because you want to make sure that the balance is properly struck, really, and you will have seen from the evidence, perhaps, that I've given to other committees—. And in fact…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
That is not the intention of the regulation-making powers, Chair. In relation to the UK legislation, the Bill, we've been in—I think it's probably fair to say—pretty constant dialogue with the UK Government in relation to that legislation for reasons that are…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
No. As a former Counsel General, I certainly value the advice of lawyers, Chair. So, I share—. [Laugher.]
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, since you put it like that, Chair, it would be probably prudent of me to ask Grace Martins to give her reflections as well.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
That is not my understanding, Chair. I don't think that changes would be needed.
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
I wouldn't say 'disregarded', Chair. We've had regard to the provisions of the Act in looking at whether any of the provisions of the Bill need to be changed, but the Government's position is that the devolution boundaries are set by the Government of Wales…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Chair, I think the position is as the Counsel General set out, that we work on the basis that the devolved powers that we have, as determined by the various Government of Wales Acts, is the underpinning for our development of legislation. So, it is our view…
, Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Chair, thank you for the opportunity to give evidence today on the Bill. Yes, I am content that the Bill is within the competence of the Senedd.
, Finance Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Well, I'm not sure I'm in a position to tell you what I think the outcome of the review will be, Chair, but I hope they will be that we have provided detailed information for the RIA, which allows that to be properly scrutinised. We've had a discussion today…
, Finance Committee
Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill: Evidence session
Yes. The answer is 'yes', in short, to your question, Chair. The provisions in the Bill around Estyn are, perhaps on first blush, reasonably detailed, aren't they? They're there to provide the statutory footing for Estyn to be able to do the work that is…
