Petitions Committee

Item 2 on today's agenda is new petitions. Item 2.1, P-06-1331, 'Consider implementing legal requirements to private businesses to ensure they are accessible to all'.

'Libanus Primary have been looking at the social model and as a result explored our local town to see how accessible and inclusive it is for able and disabled individuals. They wrote to the council who informed them that privately owned premises don’t need to follow the stringent standards that government businesses do. Therefore Libanus Primary would like to address this issue to ensure all members of society have a smooth transition through our town and country'.

This was submitted by Angharad Curtis and the pupils of Libanus Primary School, with 284 signatures in total. I invite committee members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd. Can I congratulate Libanus Primary School and their teachers for this very important petition, and for using the Petitions Committee? It's great seeing a school using this facility. There has been a response—as you've mentioned, Chair—from the Minister, mentioning the disability rights taskforce with its action plan, which is due to be published in March 2024. So, there are—. Work is ongoing to address some of the concerns that the pupils have raised. I think the main concern from the pupils is that disabled people should not be treated differently. They don't think it's fair that they have to wait and to draw somebody's attention within the shop to be able to go into their shop. And they're concerned that many individuals in their communities are feeling disheartened and isolated, and they want Welsh Government to make sure that Wales is as accessible as possible for all citizens. We can recognise that the Government is looking at this, so there is work ongoing to tackle the important concerns they've raised. We should certainly share the views of the pupils with the taskforce, but perhaps that's as far as we can go as a committee with this at the moment, and we all, as Members, look forward to the publication of the report next year. Diolch yn fawr, Cadeirydd.

Diolch, Rhys. I absolutely agree in terms of the pupils taking the initiative, and congratulate them for their excellent work. And can I ask if Members agree with Rhys's proposals there? They do. Diolch yn fawr.

Item 2.2, P-06-1333, 'Stop Natural Resources Wales from tree felling that threatens red squirrel survival'.

'In 2021, Petition P-06-1208 was debated by the Senedd to get new laws to protect red squirrel habitat. The petition also highlighted how NRW NW Area had failed to monitor squirrel populations in Newborough and Pentraeth forests on Anglesey. Subsequent research revealed precipitous declines in Newborough forest associated with too much timber cutting.

'Now in Gwynedd, NRW are once again tree felling without squirrel data; once again suggesting that vague 'internal guidance' can make up for this'.

This was submitted by Dr Craig Shuttleworth with 3,625 signatures, and I now invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. Just a quick thing, really. I was reading this petition with some interest, and I know that we’ve got a debate coming up about squirrelpox, and I definitely think that this is something that could be highlighted during that as well, really. Because I’m conscious it hasn’t necessarily hit the target to have that debate, but also, in the correspondence we’ve had with the petitioner, they’ve come back with some quite strong questions of the Minister, and wanting further clarification, really. So I was wondering whether or not we could write back to the Minister highlighting those questions, but then also maybe to NRW, because they are being quite strongly challenged there by the petitioner.

Diolch yn fawr, Joel. Do Members agree with Joel's suggestions? Any comments? No. Okay. Joel's right—we have written to Business Committee already requesting a debate, and I'm sure some of the points in this petition can be raised during that time, if not by committee members, probably by Darren Millar, who is the furry red Senedd Member, and red squirrel champion for the Senedd.

Item 2.3, P-06-1335, 'Welsh Government should take steps to ensure vulnerable adults without bank cards can pay with cash'.

'Mencap Cymru is concerned that the move to a cashless society will leave behind disabled people who cannot have access to electronic forms of payment. In recent months people with a learning disability have been unable to pay for goods and services and have had to leave businesses empty-handed. Support workers are not permitted to use their own cards, and nor should they be. This means they do not have equal access to goods and services with many businesses and organisations moving to cashless transactions'.

And this was submitted by the charity Mencap Cymru with a total of 2,504 signatures. I invite Members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. I think we’ve seen quite a bit of coverage of this particular issue in the press, and I think Mencap have done a really good job. I think they’ve highlighted two particular areas that they would want the Welsh Government to focus on. I think, in the long term, it’s essentially looking at how Welsh Government, UK Government and the Financial Conduct Authority can work on alternatives, or at least a provision for vulnerable adults to be involved in a cashless society, but in the short term, looking at how public bodies, or bodies across the board that are in receipt of public funds, can allow people to pay with cash if they wish. I’m really keen to see this go to debate in the Chamber. I think it’s really important to a lot of our constituents, so I would like to suggest, if the committee would agree, that we ask for an inquiry as the first point of call so that we can actually dig down into this, and then hopefully that could follow on to a good debate in the Chamber as well.

Diolch, Luke. I know, from a conversation we had as a clerking team, there is scope for some work on this. So if Members would agree to this suggestion that we do seek to undertake an inquiry in the autumn term—do they agree? They do. And it's also worth noting as well, actually, the interest of the Senedd in this. I know Sioned Williams and Sam Kurtz, at the last opportunity to question the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt, on this particular petition and topic, Mencap themselves were mentioned by those two Members. So, I do feel, and Members clearly agree, that there is space for us to dig into this a bit further and debate our report and findings at the end.

Item 2.4, P-06-1336, 'Free Welsh lessons for everyone who wants to learn the language in Wales'.

'Many people in Wales are very keen to learn Welsh, and people who live here and people who move to our country want to see the language flourish and grow. But a great many people also find it difficult to afford Welsh lessons, and using Duolingo is not a suitable learning method for everyone. Therefore, we need to ensure that everyone has a fair opportunity to learn Welsh without having to worry about the cost, and that there is also an appropriate method for people to learn'.

This was submitted by Elfed Wyn ap Elwyn, with 858 signatures, and I'd like to bring Members in to discuss this petition and any particular actions they may wish to take. Buffy Williams.

Thank you, Chair. I'd like to thank the petitioner for bringing this petition forward. As a Welsh learner myself, I do understand there is a wide range of formats on offer for those wanting to learn the language, but I do worry that it isn't easy to find this information. It's not easy to find if there is funding available for the different classes that are on offer, so I think, as a committee, we could write to the National Centre for Learning Welsh's chief executive and find some clarification on where this is advertised to start with, because it's really, really difficult to find out where the classes locally are held, let alone on a wider scale. So, I think that this is something, as a committee, we could look at a little bit more closely.

Diolch, Buffy. Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Gadeirydd. Just to agree with Buffy's suggestion as a starting point, I think it would be useful to get a clear picture of what is currently available. I should probably declare an interest as well, I know Elfed, and I know he's very passionate about the subject. I agree with him on this particular point as well. Especially now, with the cost-of-living crisis, I think a lot of people have been locked out of going to learn Welsh as well as other languages. Of course, we know the benefit of being bilingual, not just in terms of the physical side of being able to go out and the mental side of that part, but also the development of people's brains, essentially. We have seen a number of scientific studies out there that show that being bilingual can help ward against stuff like Alzheimer's. Well, I think that's an important point for us to consider when it comes to language policy and how we help people go out and learn other languages.

Diolch, Luke. Any comments from other Members? Joel.

Thank you, Chair. I agree with what Buffy and Luke have said, really, in terms of trying to look to see what support is out there. I know Luke was saying then about the benefits of bilingual education, but also—it's something I've raised in the Chamber before—the decline in foreign languages, as well, in French and German. So, I don't know if there's scope there to see what help might be available to them, as well. I don't know, but—.

Thanks, Joel. We can certainly ask our clerking team to see if there is scope for that within this, and when the petition comes back the next time, we can consider that suggestion then.

Item 2.5, P-06-1337, 'Sycharth, the home of Owain Glyndŵr, should be bought to safeguard the site for future generations'.

'History is such a key subject for us here in Wales. Stories from our nation show us how we have developed over the centuries to become what we are today. Notable characters have steered this interesting history, with none more prominent than Owain Glyndŵr, who has contributed so much to our identity, and for many, he is a symbol of the nation. It is very disheartening to see that Sycharth, Glyndŵr's home, is almost forgotten deep in the heart of rural Powys, and the place is not very accessible for people to visit.'

This petition again was submitted by Elfed Wyn ap Elwyn, with 10,534 signatures in total. I'll invite Members to discuss this petition, and perhaps any actions they may wish to take, looking at Rhys ab Owen.

Thank you very much, Chair, and thank you to Councillor Elfed Wyn ap Elwyn for his second, and very important, petition today. He clearly takes an interest in the work of the committee. What Elfed has raised is not a new issue, there has been real concern about the state of Sycharth for many years. I have experience of this myself. The site is in a very poor state of repair and it's not seen as a notable landmark in our nation's history, or it's certainly not treated in that way. It's clear from the support that Elfed has garnered—over 10,500 signatures to the petition—that there's clearly a strong feeling in favour of safeguarding the Sycharth site and to recognise its contribution to the history of our nation.

It is Owain Glyndŵr Day on 16 September, and because this petition has had so much support and that Owain Glyndŵr Day falls in mid September, I suggest that we should seek a debate on Sycharth in the Senedd Chamber in our first week back after the summer recess. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr, Rhys. Thanks for your suggestion as well to request a debate, and in particular request a debate ahead of Owain Glyndŵr Day, which I think seems very sensible. Any further comments from Members? Joel James.

Thank you, Chair. It was just a quick observation really. I know we’ve had a similar petition coming in—I can’t remember if we’ve debated it now, or if it will be debated—about Ruperra castle, and about management plans for privately owned amenities, for want of a better word, and whether or not there's scope to maybe bring that within this discussion, this debate, then, really, because I would imagine that there are similar—for want of a better word—properties throughout Wales that are just equally as important, and I think that’s an opportunity for us to highlight them as well. I’m also conscious that it might be of benefit for the committee to go and visit Sycharth, just to see what the situation is like on the ground. I think that might be beneficial for us in framing our debate, then, in September.

Diolch, Joel, for that. I think on your second point, a visit, we can certainly look to see if that is achievable, and getting the committee out there is one of the things that we did say in establishing this committee that we would go out across Wales. I’m sure we can look into that.

And on your first point on raising other topics of interest, I agree, I think there is a case for that, and perhaps, if agreed—and hopefully, it will be agreed by Business Committee that we can debate this issue—that Members can make those points in those contributions there.

Item 2.6, P-06-1340, ‘Stop the change of speed limits to 20mph on 17th September’.

'This decision is not representative of the broader public opinion and as such, it is not democratic to implement the changes. An alteration to road laws on this scale should be subject to much more extensive polling or possibly as part of a Welsh referendum on the matter.'

This was submitted by Benjamin James Watkins with 21,919 signatures in total. Given the scale of the signatures to this particular petition and the interest in the topic of the petition, I asked the clerking team to reach out to the lead petitioner, Benjamin, to suggest that we bring forward the closing date of this particular petition and bring it forward to this committee ahead of the changes in the law, so that we can request a debate from Business Committee ahead of those changes on 17 September. Are Members content to agree? They are. Any further comments? No. Okay.

Item 3.1, P-05-1112, ‘Help Welsh Communities Buy Community Assets: Implement Part 5 Chapter 3 of the Localism Act 2011’, submitted by Daniel Evans with 655 signatures. I think this is the eighth time now we’ve considered Daniel’s petition in this committee. I'll bring in Members to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair, and I agree with you, in a sense, that it is quite an important petition to agree, and it’s had a lot of interest, and I know that the Local Government and Housing Committee have also looked into that, and I know that because I’m on the committee, I suppose, and they have made quite detailed recommendations about this, and I know that, for example, the Minister for Social Justice confirmed that there will be a commission to look into this. And so, with that in mind, I don’t necessarily know what more we can do as the Petitions Committee, as I think it’s already been looked into, if that made sense.

So, I definitely, definitely think that we should go back to the petitioner, highlighting the work of the Local Government and Housing Committee, highlighting what the Welsh Government is doing to do it, and also to thank the petitioner for raising this, and I think it’s probably time to close it then.

Diolch yn fawr, Joel, for that and, yes, I fully agree to thank Daniel for engaging with the committee on a number of occasions now, and of course we can share the report from the Local Government and Housing Committee with the petitioner as well. But you're right: a successful journey, in many ways, because we've highlighted this in a number of different ways in the Senedd as well as with different committees. Are Members content to agree the suggestion? Yes.

Item 3.2, P-06-1299, 'Welsh Government "Freeze on road building" to include a clause for cases that pose a danger to life', submitted by Susan Blaney with 455 signatures. I'll bring Members in to discuss this petition, looking at Luke Fletcher.

Diolch, Cadeirydd. Looking at the committee notes, I can see we've had a response from the leader of Rhondda Cynon Taf council, as well as the Minister and the petitioner as well. It's difficult, really, to see what more we as a committee can do on this particular case. I think it now will fall down to members who represent the area—not just in this place, but at a council level as well—to forward this work, rather than us as a committee. I'd obviously like to thank the petitioner for highlighting this and for engaging with us on this particular issue, but unfortunately, I think, I'd like to suggest we close the petition due to there not being much more that we can do as a committee.

Thanks, Luke. Joel James.

Thank you, Chair, and I'm grateful for the action the committee has taken following the last meeting where this was discussed. I've read the response from Rhondda Cynon Taf council and I'm a little bit disappointed with that, really. I don't necessarily think the response was what we were, not necessarily hoping for, but in a sense, what we were trying to look for, if that makes sense, from them. It was very matter of fact, and what they responded, we knew anyway, really, and it didn't actually go into any further details of what can be done. So, I express some disappointment there. I'm conscious of my colleague Luke's desire to close the petition, or recommendation to close the petition, but I just feel that there's something more that could be done, really. I know we have written to the Minister before, but surely there's scope to write back again to highlight this as an issue. I travelled this road during recess last week, and it's gridlocked, really, you know. I just feel that something needs to be done to try and push this a bit more. I don't know whether or not there is scope to write back to the Minister to highlight the issue that the roads review is having on this community.

Chair, I'm happy to defer to one of the local Members' suggestions. He's a lot more aware of the local situation than I am, so I'm happy to defer to, or support, Joel's suggestion.

Thanks, both, for those comments. Perhaps, as a suggestion going forward, taking and given the keen interest of one of the local Members, Joel James, we can seek to find if there is anything further that we can say to the Minister outside of the session today, and if there is, then we will ask committee Members to agree that we send that on to the Minister on our behalf and consider this petition again at a later date. Does that seem sensible, with Members happy? Yes. Thank you, and thanks, Luke, for coming back in there and supporting Joel.

Item 3.3, P-06-1269, 'Don't let the plan run out for dying people in Wales', submitted by Marie Curie and MNDA, with 2,195 signatures. Firstly, can I thank both Marie Curie and MNDA for their approach with the committee and engagement with the committee? I think it's been very helpful throughout this journey to date, and I'll bring Members in to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take. Buffy Williams.

Thank you, Chair. I have followed this petition really closely from the beginning. I can see that the petitioners have put forward three more questions to ask the health Minister. I would like to leave this petition open for one final time and wait for the response from the Minister. If the committee could push these three questions and wait for clarification before closing this petition, I think that the petitioner and I would be really grateful.

Thank you, Buffy. Do Members agree? Any comments? No. Thank you, Buffy. We'll take those actions forward.

Item 3.4, P-06-1304, 'To review the emergency temporary housing policy which impacts our communities'. This was submitted by Richard Grabham, with 306 signatures. I'll bring Members in to discuss this petition and any actions they may wish to take now. Rhys ab Owen.

Diolch, Gadeirydd, and I thank the petitioner for this very important petition. In the middle of last month, we had a debate on the Local Government and Housing Committee's report into homelessness and prevention work. We also heard the responses from the Welsh Government to the 24 recommendations and a commitment to reform housing law and to implement the homelessness action group's recommendation to fundamentally reform homelessness services. They've been shared with the petitioner, he hasn't provided further comments. So, in light of that—matters have moved on, there's a commitment from the Welsh Government to address the recommendations raised by the Local Government and Housing Committee—I don't think there's anything more we can do other than to thank the petitioner once again and to close his petition. Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Rhys. Do Members agree? They do. Thank you, Rhys. We'll action those points there.

Item 3.5, P-06-1307, 'Commit to the adoption of the maintenance of new housing estates by local authorities'. This was submitted by Eleri Lewis, with 267 signatures. I wanted to take the opportunity to provide an update for Members and to put on the record that we have agreed to visit the Cwm Calon estate in Ystrad Mynach with Hefin David, the Member of the Senedd for Caerphilly. We'll be visiting there on 26 June to learn about their experiences. Of course, Hefin David gave evidence to us, in a previous committee session, on this very matter. We'll be using the experiences and the information we learn from that visit as part of our inquiry and findings, and we'll report on them as we come back. I don't think there's anything more to add at this stage to this position, but rather, to just provide an update for the Senedd record. Happy? Yes.

Moving on, then, to item 4. That does now conclude today's public business. Can I propose, in accordance with Standing Order 17.42(ix), that the committee resolves to meet in private for the remainder of the meeting? Are Members content? They are; I can see they are. Thank you very much. We will meet again on 19 June. Diolch yn fawr iawn. Meeting closed.