Plenary

The next item, therefore, is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement. Lesley Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Can I call for an oral or written statement from the Minister for Climate Change on the rules around retrospective planning applications, enforcements and appeals, please? I have an issue within my constituency where a retrospective planning application was applied for four years ago, and despite being rejected on three separate occasions, a further appeal has been lodged, which means a final decision will not be taken until next year. One of the conditions the application has been rejected on can never be overcome. So, a community are left frustrated that building work has continued, and a second and third retrospective application was allowed to be submitted.

What has also caused frustration is that the enforcement notice has also been appealed. Surely, when a planning condition can't be overcome—is physically unable to be overcome—then allowing retrospective submissions a second and third time, and appeals, is a costly, time-consuming exercise on already stretched planning authorities. So, can I ask for a statement accordingly? Diolch, Llywydd.

Thank you. The Minister is currently reviewing the regulations around retrospective planning permissions. I think what you're asking is very, very specific and the Minister is in her place and has heard you. I think it might be best if you write to her directly.

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. May I ask for two statements, please? The first, a statement from the Minister for Health and Social Services about the recruitment and training of dentists, and what steps are being taken to improve overseas recruitment to the profession. I've met with many practitioners over recent months, and I know we've got a very valuable report from the health committee around dentists. One of the issues is overseas recruitment being the only real short-term response. So, I'd like to understand where that's at, please.

And, secondly, a statement from the Deputy Minister for Climate Change around bus reform legislation and the timetable around that, please. On Friday, I met with residents in Borth, Ceredigion, to hear about their concerns about the deterioration of bus services in their community. We've had a statement on the short-term picture, but the legislation is long overdue, and I'd be grateful, as I'm sure others would as well, for an update from the Minister on the progress of these legislative proposals, and the timescales as well for the legislation. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you. The Minister for Health and Social Services is very keen to attract overseas graduates and, indeed, international dentists to work here in Wales. Those dentists who have a primary degree from the European Union, or the European Economic Area, are eligible to have full registration with the General Dental Council straight away. That allows them, then, to join the NHS performer list, to work in primary care dental practice. If an individual doesn't have those degrees, if he or she has registration from a non-EU or non-EAA institution, they then have to complete the overseas registration examination. What we're doing is making sure that they are available to those international dentists, and I know the number of places on this summer's sitting of that exam has tripled as part of the recovery of the examination following the COVID pandemic. The Minister's also very keen, as I said, to attract international graduates on the tier 5 visa programme within hospital settings.

In relation to your second question around bus legislation, you'll be aware that the First Minister, every year, brings forward a statement in the Chamber, and, last year, in his legislative statement to the Siambr, he stated that we would bring forward a bus reform Bill in the third year of this Senedd term.

Trefnydd, could I request a statement from the Minister for Health and Social Services, providing us with an update on access to fracture liaison services in Wales? Fractures caused by osteoporosis affect half of women over 50, and a fifth of men. In terms of years lost to premature deaths and disability, fractures are the fourth most devastating health condition of all. Effective therapies exist, but the postcode lottery for fracture liaison services means that thousands of people who need it are missing out on treatment. The result is thousands of preventable spinal and hairline fractures that are life changing for people and costly for the NHS. In February, the Minister issued a written statement, stating that she expected health boards to achieve 100 per cent coverage of FLS by September next year. This week, the Royal Osteoporosis Society will launch a campaign to end the postcode lottery for FLS across the UK. I would be grateful if the Minister could provide the Chamber with an update on the progress being made here in Wales. Thank you very much.

Thank you. I think you outlined very clearly the many harms that come from a fracture—it's not just the fracture itself, but the life-changing issues that can often follow, particularly very complex fractures. I think the Minister for Health and Social Services is very keen to continue working, particularly with our third sector, to be very proactive to try to ensure that people avoid falls in the first place, for instance, so that they're not requiring then the hospital treatment and, as you say, the therapies after. The Minister did make a written statement back in February. There's still quite a significant amount of time—probably about 16 months—before the deadline that she set for the health boards, so I don't think a statement at the moment is necessary. But I'm sure that, if the Minister feels there is something to update Members on, she'll be happy to bring forward a written statement.FootnoteLink

I call for two statements. The first is on the Welsh Government strategy for cystic fibrosis in Wales. I'm sure you'll be aware that this week marks Cystic Fibrosis Week. Cystic fibrosis is a progressive genetic condition that primarily causes the lungs and digestive system to become clogged with mucus, and affects roughly 500 people across Wales. As well as affecting them physically and mentally, it also affects them financially. And according to a recent report conducted by the University of Bristol, the additional cost of living with cystic fibrosis is over £6,500 each year. Despite the current median age of death for someone with cystic fibrosis being tragically young, at just 38, this means that, over their lifetime, they will face roughly £0.25 million of extra costs. I therefore call for a statement from the Welsh Government on its strategy both to speed up the development of new cystic fibrosis treatments, and to address the need for financial support for people living with cystic fibrosis.

I also call for a statement from the health Minister on the care and treatment of polio survivors in Wales. As a patron of the British Polio Fellowship, I sponsored and spoke at last Wednesday evening's event in the Senedd, launching their optimal clinical care pathway for people affected by polio, attended by many polio survivors living in Wales, who emphasised how important the pathway is to them. Thousands contracted the polio virus when they were children, and they continue to suffer with its long-term consequences. The pathway is a recommended patient route through the healthcare system, which will ensure polio survivors receive the right care at the right time, and they need it to be adopted by the NHS, health boards and social care services across Wales. I therefore call for a statement by the health Minister, detailing how she will engage with the British Polio Fellowship regarding implementation of the pathway, and the need to reduce variation in care for polio survivors living in Wales. Diolch.

Thank you. As you say, it's good to see—. I can see you've got your badge on, recognising the Cystic Fibrosis Trust and the work that they undertake. And the Minister for Health and Social Services has made it very clear to health boards her expectations around that, and, obviously, new drugs that do come forward to help with this devastating disease are looked at on a case-by-case basis.

With regard to polio survivors, as you say, there are many polio survivors living in Wales at the current time. I'm not aware of the pathway process, but I will certainly ask the Minister for Health and Social Services to inform Members if there is anything specific being done in relation to that.

Thank you, Trefnydd.

The next item is a statement by the First Minister on raising Wales's international profile and an update on the Welsh Government's international relations activity. The First Minister, Mark Drakeford.

Thank you very much, Llywydd. Wales has long been an outward-looking country with strong international connections. Our history is full of stories of close collaboration with our nearest neighbours. Indeed, one of the most striking features of the Age of Saints is how far, and how frequently, Welsh men and women travelled to other places, with the sea that surrounds us on three sides as their common highway. Hundreds of years later, our leading role in the first industrial revolution drew people from around the globe to Wales for our coal, our iron and steel, and people with Welsh heritage have travelled beyond our borders and are to be found in every part of the world. That strong sense of internationalism is as significant to us today as it was all those centuries ago. It helps us to prosper as a country.

The UK’s decision to leave the European Union has made it more important than ever that we maintain and strengthen our long-standing relationships with regions and countries in Europe, but also with partners around the world. Our international strategy was developed to do just that, and to use all opportunities to build our profile internationally, and in that way to support businesses by opening new markets, supporting them to increase their exports and encouraging inward investment to Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, Welsh goods exports surpassed the value of their pre-pandemic level at £20.5 billion in 2022. We will invest £4 million this year in a comprehensive programme of export support for Welsh businesses, including an active programme of trade missions and events. Following visits to Boston and Amsterdam last week, we will be taking businesses to Paris later this month.

Our international work, though, is not simply about trade. It’s an important opportunity to draw attention to the enormous talent that lies within Wales, and the values that are important to us as a nation. The unparalleled global attention focused on the world cup in Qatar provided a platform to promote Wales, to create opportunities for co-operation and business, but also to take every chance to set out the importance to Wales of our commitment to those rights—human rights, labour rights, rights of the LGBTQ+ population—that we believe belong to us all.

Dirprwy Lywydd, sport is of huge interest to many of our fellow citizens. That is why it provides such an important platform for us to tell the story of Wales. Whether that’s the incredible sporting success of our athletes, from world cup finals in Qatar to the women’s rugby team reaching the finals in New Zealand or the six athletes we met in the Senedd last week, before they compete in the Special Olympics in Berlin later this month. Wrexham is now well and truly on the international map, thanks to success on the football field and something the Trefnydd was just saying to me about Hollywood. [Laughter.] And Dirprwy Lywydd, there is much more to come.

In March this year, we launched Wales in France 2023, a key focus for this year, based around, but going beyond, the men’s Rugby World Cup. Just as we did in 2019 in Japan, we look forward to the opportunities to promote Wales by bringing together Government and external stakeholders to work together for Wales.

This collaborative model around sport has achieved so much already that Wales has been invited to the World Congress on Sports Diplomacy to showcase our model in the Basque Country later this year, another part of the world with particularly strong links to Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, sporting success and the international profile of our creative industries—this is, after all, the week of the Cardiff Singer of the World competition—are of special importance to our young people. Last year, I had the privilege of joining Urdd Gobaith Cymru in Oslo, as it delivered its one hundredth consecutive annual message of peace and goodwill at the Nobel Peace Centre.

That sense of a confident nation, our face turned outwards to meet the world and welcoming of others to our shores, lies at the heart of our ambition to be a nation of sanctuary and of our Taith programme for young people. That programme has already done an enormous amount of good in creating opportunities for Welsh participants to experience, at first hand, what the world has to offer, and to welcome young people from around the world to Wales. And the investment we are making in it is repaid time and time again in the reputation that it has reinforced for Wales as a place determined to remain engaged with that wider international community.

Dirprwy Lywydd, that is why, over the last 12 months, we have taken further steps to strengthen our relationship with Ireland—our closest and most important European partner. I was part of a ministerial delegation to Cork and Dublin for the second Wales-Ireland ministerial forum in October. It was very good that the Consul General for Ireland could join us in north Wales for the north Wales Cabinet committee last month, and we will host the third Wales-Ireland ministerial forum meeting in north Wales in the autumn.

Our Wales in Canada 2022 year delivered more than 35 activities across seven provinces in Canada, as well as virtual activities, engaging literally millions of people. The campaign has strengthened and deepened existing relationships and forged new partnerships across Canada and between Canada and Wales.

Every year, of course, St David’s Day provides us with an opportunity to promote Wales overseas. I visited Brussels, the Minister for education was in Ireland, and the health Minister was in Copenhagen, as together we sought to support Welsh activity around the world—activity in London, and activity in the USA, Canada, China, Japan, India, the middle east and Europe led by our overseas network and bringing Wales to the attention of the world.

Of course, international engagement doesn’t just happen when we travel to other countries. An outwardly focused nation is also a welcoming and inviting nation. Since April last year, Ministers have welcomed more than 40 international representatives here to Wales. Only last week, the Minister President of Flanders was in Cardiff. His primary reason for being here to sign a new memorandum of understanding with Wales, and we aim to sign similar bilateral agreements with Baden Württemberg and with Silesia in Poland over the next 12 months.

Thank you, First Minister, for your statement this afternoon. Obviously, being internationally looking and outward looking is an important part of any modern, dynamic country and we commend efforts to make sure that Wales is at the forefront of those initiatives. The one sporting team that you missed out in praising, First Minister—I’m sure it was an unintended omission—was the Welsh men and women’s deaf sevens team that went out and won the world cup in Argentina, which is something I think we should be commending, because they came home with the silverware and many of them funded that trip out to Argentina from their own pockets, which was no small feat for many of them.

And supporting their clubs.

I couldn’t put it better than what Mike Hedges has just put from the backbenches on your side.

When it comes to inward investment, First Minister, it is vital that we secure a fair share of inward investment by being positive and promoting what’s good about Wales and why companies need to locate here in Wales. PricewaterhouseCoopers International's survey of senior managers and chief executives of worldwide companies indicated the UK was still the third most attractive place in the world after China and America to look at for inward investment. Regrettably, the last set of figures that we had come forward, for 2021-22, indicated Wales received the lowest share of FDIs into the UK other than Northern Ireland, but also had the lowest job creation numbers at under 1,800 jobs being created by such projects. Can you outline how the Welsh Government is positively, proactively looking to make sure we increase our share of foreign direct investment, and in particular the jobs that flow from those investments, because, obviously, the job numbers today indicate that unemployment regrettably is going up here in Wales, contrary to other parts of the United Kingdom?

Also, with trade deals very much on the agenda from the UK Government’s perspective, but on all fronts now, whether it’s North American Governments, the EU themselves, which you touch on in your statement—the EU today are out in South America; the president of the Commission is there, negotiating trade deals with Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay and Argentina that don’t look dissimilar to many of the trade deals that the United Kingdom Government have put in place that have been criticised from your benches—. So, I’d be really pleased to understand how the Welsh Government engages with the UK Government when trade deals are being formulated and discussed, and what support is made available from the Welsh side of the equation. I appreciate more work needs to be done on that relationship, and I do understand the frustrations that Ministers—and I can see Ministers nodding their heads in frustration—but it is a fact that trade deals are going to be very important, going forward, and it is important that there is a good robust relationship on both fronts from the two Governments that are responsible here in Wales, whether that be the UK Government or the Welsh Government.

I’d also like to try and understand how Welsh Government offices across the world interact with the diplomatic presence that the UK Government has with its embassy network and consulate network, because it is vital that we don’t end up replicating good work that is done by other offices, and we draw on the strength and expertise that exists in many of the embassies and consulates and the access to governments at an international level to support the promotion of Wales.

Dirprwy Lywydd, can I thank the leader of the opposition for those questions? I thank him for what he said at the start of his questions about the importance of international relations for Wales and promoting Wales across the world. I absolutely want to celebrate the achievements of the deaf rugby team. I was very pleased to be able to record some messages for them to promote the opportunities that they were engaged in, and I'm hoping that we will be able to welcome them at some point in the not-too-distant future to celebrate that remarkable achievement.

As far as inward investment is concerned, the FDI results for 2022-23 will be published by the UK Government either at the end of this month or early in July. I'm sure the figures will be of interest to the Member. They're under strict embargo, so I mustn't anticipate them, but I expect they will begin to show the emergence from the pandemic period, which was so heavily reflected in the last set of figures, and indeed the figures the year before. I agree with what Andrew R.T. Davies said about the importance of foreign direct investment. We think there are around 1,340 foreign-owned companies here in Wales and they employ over 164,000 people, so they are a major part of the Welsh economy. The USA is our largest non-EU presence, Germany the largest investor from the EU, and our activity in supporting Welsh businesses is very much focused on making sure that potential inward investors are aware of everything that they would get were they to come and invest here in Wales, and we've had some significant successes. The work that my colleague Vaughan Gething led in securing major US investment in Newport in the semiconductor sector is just one example of the way in which the work that lies behind the international strategy turns into tangible benefits for Wales.

I'm less optimistic than the leader of the opposition about trade deals. I see trade deals struck by the UK Government now disowned by people who were Ministers in that Government when those trade deals were struck. What has George Eustice said about the way in which Welsh farmers were sold down the river by the UK Government in its anxiety to demonstrate that a post-Brexit world allowed trade deals in far-flung parts of the world? That's not my view; that's the view of the Minister in charge of the rural economy in England. He's disowned the trade deal that his own Government struck. So, we will be doing whatever we can to influence the UK to strike deals that take a rounded view of the UK economy, that it isn't prepared to sacrifice some parts of the United Kingdom for what turn out to be utterly marginal and probably evanescent benefits in other parts of the world.

The leader of the opposition asked me about the relationship between the Welsh Government offices—21 of them—outside Wales and the offices supported by the UK Government. I'm pleased to say that the relationship is generally a very strong one. Many of our offices in other parts of the world are situated inside UK embassies, and on the ground the support we get from diplomats in other parts of the world is outstanding. They work very closely with us. They regard Welsh Government employees there as part of the team there to support and promote Wales, but as part of that wider effort, and I think we benefit very much from that. We benefit particularly when we have Welsh-connected people. When I was in Paris in the embassy there, and our French representative works inside that embassy team, the fact that Menna Richards is a Welsh person from the Rhondda representing the United Kingdom clearly works for the benefit of Wales as well.

One of the key objectives of the Welsh Government's international strategy is for Wales to achieve its aspiration of being a globally responsible nation, and to do so in a way that aligns with the best of our progressive values. As Uganda has been mentioned already and we're in Pride Month, I think it's important to recognise the extent of what we're talking about here. The Bill that has now been enacted in Uganda is the most egregious example, throughout the entire Commonwealth, of discriminatory legislation in relation to the LGBTQ community. It not only criminalises the so-called promotion of LGBT communities—it actually involves the death penalty under certain circumstances. Ugandan LGBTQ+ activists have called on governments across the world now to pause all aid to Uganda while this statute remains in place. That was the strategy that was effective 10 years ago when an almost identical Bill was passed. The US Government under the Obama administration stopped some aid immediately, they threatened to pull all aid, and, in a matter of months, the Act was annulled. So, will the Welsh Government join this international campaign to pause aid to Uganda in response to the calls from Ugandan LGBTQ activists?

Turning to Qatar, there was criticism, as the First Minister knows, obviously, of the ministerial visits to Qatar, partly because of their record in terms of LGBTQ+ rights, and also in relation to migrant workers and other aspects of human rights. I know that he has said previously that he didn't regret Ministers accepting hospitality from the Qatari Government, but would he accept that it would be better, in future, to have a clear and simple rule that Welsh Government Ministers and officials travelling on official business representing Wales should do so based on Welsh Government expenditure rather than accepting travel and accommodation hospitality from other Governments, to avoid even the perception that that, in some way, compromises the independence of our representatives abroad?

You mentioned the Nobel Peace Centre and Wales's tradition of peace and internationalism, so could I raise with you Welsh Government participation in the DSEI arms trade fair that is going to be held again in London this September? The Labour Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has said that the fair’s presence in London is insulting to people who have escaped violence, and he has asked for it to be cancelled. So, can you give a commitment that no Welsh Government officials will attend this event and no public money will be used in supporting any Welsh organisation to attend either? Many countries of concern, to use the official phrase, are invited to this arms trade fair. Scandalously, among them is Saudi Arabia, a country that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people in Yemen. Surely, our claim to be a nation of sanctuary is pretty hollow if we are, effectively, tacitly supporting the very wars that are creating refugees when we say we're committed to supporting them.

You've already gone past your time.

I was going to pray in aid the late Steffan Lewis in one of his great ideas, which was the creation of a Celtic development bank, building on the bilateral discussions with Ireland, bringing in possibly Scotland as well, to look at the possibility of joint infrastructure projects where we have so much common interest across the Celtic sea, and in other ways as well. Could we possibly look at creating that institution? Diolch yn fawr.

In relation to the first point that the Member makes, I think it's a complex argument and it's possible for reasonable people to come down on different sides of it. The actions of the Ugandan Government are absolutely to be criticised, and they are absolutely to be held to account by the international community for those actions. Pausing all aid would mean that the small projects in which we are involved to improve the health of mothers in the part of Uganda in which we're involved would be paused, and there will be people giving birth during that time who will not see the benefit of those projects. The very small start-up businesses that we are supporting, again animated by women in that part of Uganda, would lose that opportunity to get off the ground and to start to make a difference in the lives of some of the poorest people with which we are engaged.

I understand the argument that unless you're prepared to do something, then the message to the Ugandan Government isn't heard as loudly as it would be. At this point, our conclusion is, as I said in my answer to the leader of the opposition, that we have to distinguish between the people we are trying to support and the temporary Government that has put into law the abhorrent piece of legislation that everybody in this Chamber would condemn. I've had the opportunity to meet young people from Uganda who have come here—Jenipher's Coffi, other people who we have been so proud to support. I don't believe at this point that putting their welfare in peril would have the impact of changing the mind of the Government, and everybody would be worse off and nobody would be better off as a result.

As far as hospitality in Qatar is concerned, the Welsh Government would have much preferred to have secured our own hospitality in the normal way. It was made absolutely clear to us that if we did we would not be able to find anywhere to stay inside the zone where all the activities in which we were able to make the points that Members in this Senedd were keen for us to make would be held. So, we would have gone there and we would have not been able to do any of those things that we regarded as important, and were powerfully supported across the Chamber. So, while it was definitely our preference, sometimes local organisers have an ability to shape the terms in which you participate in a way that you cannot overcome.

As far as the arms trade fair in London is concerned, there will be no Welsh Government stand or direct presence in that way. I can't give an absolute assurance that no public money would not have found its way into the pockets of businesses that will be represented at that fair, but there will be no direct Welsh Government representation at it.

This item has actually reached the end of its allotted time and there are six speakers still to contribute. I intend to call them all, hopefully, but I do ask them to keep to their time limits. They know their time limits, and the first one who's going to do exactly that, I'm sure, is John Griffiths.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. First Minister, I'm pleased that you were able to visit the Basque Country in March and look to strengthening our memorandum of understanding and this key relationship. In Newport, of course, we have CAF as a train manufacturer from the Basque Country, with good-quality engineering jobs, and I hope that, in the future, we will see that economic co-operation between Wales and the Basque Country resulting in increased production and hopefully increased jobs at that CAF factory in Newport. I wonder if you could say a little bit about that.

One other matter, First Minister, very quickly. I was lucky to go to Uganda with PONT this year, to see the Wales and Africa programme and PONT's activities in action. It's a long-standing 20-year relationship between PONT and Mbale in Uganda, and it's community to community. While I was there, I actually saw some of these attitudes towards homosexuality from the Ugandan Government challenged by people involved with the PONT charity. It's community to community, and it's about getting the right understanding and attitudes as well as the general work.

As far as CAF is concerned, I was very pleased, when I was in the Basque Country, to meet the head of CAF. They are very positive about the factory that they have established in Wales, with the quality of the workforce, the welcome they've had here, the support they've had from the Welsh Government. The 77 new trains that CAF are providing, trains made in Wales for use in Wales—that contract is nearing its completion. CAF are having to divert work from other contracts in Europe to that factory to sustain it while they wait for the outcome of the paused contracts that the UK Government has responsibility for. They were expecting those contracts to be awarded, they've been suspended by the UK Government pending a review, and the danger for CAF is that they may not be able to sustain their workforce—their very highly skilled and trained workforce at Newport—pending the arrival of those contracts. So, we have written to the UK Government, urging them to resolve that matter, so the successful investment that CAF has made in the Welsh economy can be secured for the future.

I very, very much agree with what John Griffiths said about the community-to-community influence that comes from our Wales and Africa programme. And it's not just one way, Llywydd; I met the vice-chancellor of the University of Namibia yesterday. He was in the university in Cardiff reinforcing links between the two universities, amazingly grateful for everything that Wales did for Namibia during the pandemic in the supply of equipment, expertise, protective clothing, and so on. But the point I made to him—and it's the point John Griffiths was making—was these are reciprocal relationships. We benefit every bit as much as we put into the relationships we have with those parts of Africa where Wales plays its own small part.

Good afternoon, Prif Weinidog. Here I am, a broken record, having been the lone voice in the Senedd criticising your Government's decision to send a diplomatic delegation to Qatar, and I want to pick up just that particular issue. Last month, two Qatari lawyers, Hazza and Rashed bin Ali Abu Shurayda, were handed life sentences behind closed doors for exercising their right to freedom of expression and assembly. And in March 2023, there was a further report that migrant workers in Qatar are actually suffering deteriorating conditions, and that any positive improvement has actually ceased. An ethical trade policy for us in Wales would mean not only seeking profitable investment, but also seeking partners who respect liberty and democracy. Therefore, could I ask you please to update us here in the Senedd on what you and the Welsh Government have done to enhance human rights records in Qatar and how you are monitoring that, because, sadly, reports suggest that they're actually deteriorating? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Llywydd, nobody here in the Senedd would be prepared to support the sorts of actions that the Member has outlined, and nor should a visit to a country be taken as an endorsement of the standards of that country, and they never were during our visit to Qatar. In every single interview that I gave and in every single meeting that I attended, I took the opportunity to make clear the values and the beliefs that will be important to people here in Wales. And could I gently say to the Member that that's not a one-way street either, because there are aspects of Welsh life that people in Qatar would not find acceptable either? We don't have a monopoly on moral superiority in our dealings with any other country in the world. What we have done is to pursue those relationships where we feel we can make a difference.

So, when I was in Qatar, one of the things I was able to do was to visit the Museum of Islamic Art, a wonderful museum headed by a woman, the senior management team almost exclusively made up of women in positions of leadership in that part of Qatari life. And to agree for a delegation of young museum curators from Qatar to come to Wales, partly to see the way things are done here, but also to help us to make sure that our museums faithfully reflect the experience of Muslim people here in Wales. And I think if you were to go into many of our museums, you would not find the contribution of Muslim communities in Wales accurately or extensively celebrated there.

Now, I'm pleased to say that that delegation has been back to Wales; I met them when they were here only a few weeks ago. I think that their visit here to Wales will have enriched their understanding, and it certainly enriched ours. And it's by that sort of activity that we are able to make small differences in areas where the things that the Member pointed to would absolutely not be acceptable to us. Do we make a difference by only talking to people with whom we agree on everything, or do we make a decision sometimes to find ways of engaging with places where there are profound differences between us, but where dialogue and exchange can make a difference?

First Minister, can I associate myself with the desire to see Wales open to business from across the world? And I'm sure you will recognise that an important part of that international relation is the welcome we provide to international visitors, as well. Indeed, last year it was encouraging to see that we were able to welcome 680,000 international visitors to Wales, who were spending around £391 million.

But it strikes me that, in Scotland, there were 3.2 million visitors there, who spent £3.1 billion—about 10 times the amount of spend in Scotland from international visitors that we see in Wales. I’m sure, like me, First Minister, you recognise that Wales is not just perhaps a more accessible place to get to, but we have such a worthy heritage, culture and natural beauty that should be explored and celebrated. So, I wonder why you think we don’t see the number of international visitors come to Wales that go to some of our Celtic counterparts, and I wonder how you’ve been able to use your recent engagements to see this important and lucrative international market thrive here in Wales.

Llywydd, I definitely agree with what the Member has said about the importance of attracting visitors to Wales and disrupting some of the more traditional patterns that we've seen in the past. Wales is now a cruise destination in a way that it hasn't been in the past, and to give Sam Rowlands just one example of how the activity I reported in my statement leads to change, when I was in Japan, I met there with leading Japan tourist organisations. We talked particularly about Japanese visitors to north Wales. There is a new relationship between parts of Japan and Conwy, a part of the world he will be very familiar with, designed to increase the number of people who travel to Wales. Also to promote the castles that exist in Japan as well, and there's activity happening this season, this tourism season, to make sure that new flights from Manchester directly to Japan, which bring visitors into a part of the United Kingdom very convenient to visit north Wales in particular, that we draw more of those visitors to see the fantastic things that north Wales has to offer.

Thank you for the statement, First Minister. I wanted to ask specifically about St David's Day. Clearly, I was pleased to see all of the engagement that there's been by Ministers this year, and we also saw the importance of that and the positive response in those nations where celebrations have taken place. But perhaps we should look at what we're doing here in Wales, where we still tend to be led by a number of volunteers across Wales. Clearly, the UK continues to refuse us a bank holiday on St David's Day, something I would hope the next Westminster Government would change, because we have seen the benefits, and the economic benefits, of doing that when nations such as Ireland celebrate St Patrick's Day. Now they're bringing forward another festival to celebrate the life of a woman, too. So may I ask whether there is an intention to look at what more we can do here in Wales in terms of celebrating St David's Day and promoting the international benefits of that, and also making the Welsh language central to that?

Thank you very much to Heledd Fychan for the question. I focused in my statement on the things that we do overseas, but of course, it is true to say that part of the international things that we try to do is to advertise and promote the things we're already doing in Wales to the wider world. And that is important on St David's Day, but to use one other example, when we prepare for Wales in France during the world cup in the autumn, one of the things that we're trying to do is not just to focus on things that we're going to be doing over in France, but also to create events and other things here in Wales where we can draw the world's attention to those things that we're doing here as part of the relationship that we are forging in that context, and to do that in the context of St David's Day, and to do it with other nations, where we can share those experiences, and there are many things that Ireland has to celebrate with us, saints and so on. That's part of the strategy, and what we are trying to do more of in future.

I'm grateful to the First Minister for the statement. I very much welcome the fact he rooted his statement in the age of the saints. We visited Ireland as a committee some months ago, and we heard there first hand about the work that's going on through the Welsh Government's offices, and we should thank the Welsh Government for the welcome we received from the office in the embassy, and also congratulate the Welsh Government on the work that's being done. I should also congratulate the Welsh Government on the work that it did in Qatar. I was in Qatar as a member of the red wall, as a supporter of our team. There were many of us there who welcomed the work that the Welsh Government did in raising the profile of Wales.

But my question is about Ukraine. I will remind the former leader of Plaid Cymru that the people of Ukraine need bullets, they need missiles, they need guns, to defend themselves from Putin's violence. They don't need warm words and flannel. And I will say this as well: I'm grateful to the Welsh Government for the work that they have done already in supporting the people of Ukraine. I'm grateful also to Mick Antoniw, the Counsel General, who has led much work, not only in this place but across Wales, in responding to Putin's invasion.

Will the Welsh Government, First Minister, continue to support the work to support the people of Ukraine, and also, particularly, the work that's being done now to promote the legacy of Gareth Jones, who first brought the suffering of the people of Ukraine in the 1930s to the attention of the world? There is considerable opportunity now for us to use the legacy of Gareth Jones to build those links between this country and the people of Ukraine.

I thank Alun Davies for those really important points. I mentioned very briefly in my statement our ambition to be a nation of sanctuary, and nowhere have we lived out that ambition more vividly in the last 15 months than in our attempts to offer a warm welcome to people from Ukraine who look to rebuild their lives by coming here to Wales. The Welsh Government's participation in that through our welcome centres has been a huge effort in partnership with our local authorities and the third sector. Thousands of people from Ukraine are now welcomed here in Wales. They bring with them, as Alun Davies has said, a new sensitivity to the longer history of that country.

I was very pleased to be able to take part with my colleague Jane Hutt in the Holodomor event, which happened outside Cathays Park, brought to the attention of the world by Gareth Jones, and so vivid in the history of those people from Ukraine who participated in that event. As I have tried to say a couple of times, Dirprwy Lywydd, when we are able to welcome people from other parts of the world to Wales, they bring with them a new richness that contributes to our understanding of that wider world—our linked history through a Welsh person in Gareth Jones, but certainly a history that those people who have come from Ukraine bring with them, and remind us of its significance to them, but also then to us.

And finally, James Evans.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. First Minister, it is very pleasing to hear of the work that the Welsh Government is doing about driving inward investment into Wales. I know that, in response to the questions posed by my leader, Andrew R.T. Davies, you said that it is very important that people have the appropriate services that they need when they come to work in Wales. What we have seen is that we don't have adequate consular services here in Wales when people come to work in our country. So, I would like to know: what work is the Welsh Government doing with the UK Government to increase the number of diplomatic consular services here in Wales, similar to what they have in Edinburgh?

Well, Llywydd, I wish that we had more consular services here in Wales. In some ways, our geography is a bit against us here. I, myself, have met over 20 ambassadors in Wales in the last six months or so. They all point out to me that Wales is a great place to make such a visit because, two hours on the train and you can have a full day's work here, and you can be back in London two hours later. So, in some ways, the fact that we are so close to London tends to argue against a full-time consular presence here in Wales.

But I did meet, only a couple of weeks ago, with the head of the UK consular service. I met him with the current Chair of the honorary consul group that we have here in Wales, and they do fantastic work. They would say to you themselves that they wish there was a full consular service. But if you can't have that, at least you can have an active, engaged, involved honorary consul, speaking up, for example, on behalf of Polish people here in Wales. Our efforts have been directed more to supporting the work of that group of honorary consuls, making sure that they play a more prominent part in our international work, that they're engaged directly with the efforts that the Welsh Government makes, that, if an ambassador comes from that country, they always come with them, and we recognise the work that they do. So, until the day when we are able to attract larger numbers of full-time consular staff to Wales, working with our very committed and, in many instances, very effective honorary consuls, is a way we can try to fill that gap.

I thank the First Minister. Item 4 this afternoon is a statement by the Minister for Climate Change on the Infrastructure (Wales) Bill. And I call on the Minister, Julie James.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I stand in the Chamber today to discuss the Infrastructure (Wales) Bill before the Senedd.

This Bill introduces a modern and simplified regime for the consenting of significant infrastructure projects in Wales, both on the land and in the territorial sea. Having an efficient and effective consenting regime is vital to the timely delivery of important infrastructure projects in Wales that make a positive contribution towards our social, economic and environmental prosperity and net-zero ambitions.

As well as helping to improve the competitiveness of Wales and position us as an attractive place for investment and jobs, it will offer our communities the opportunity to engage in an open and transparent consenting process to help shape developments that affect them. The proposals in the Bill support multiple commitments in our programme for government. This includes building a stronger, greener economy as we move towards decarbonisation, as well as embedding our response to the climate and nature emergency in everything we do. It will also play an important part towards supporting our commitment to deliver on renewable energy targets as we move towards net-zero emissions by 2050, by enabling the consenting of renewable energy projects in a robust but timely manner.

The need for this Bill has arisen as a result of the Wales Act 2017, which devolved further powers to Wales for the consenting of energy generation projects, overhead electric lines, ports and harbours and other infrastructure works. As a consequence of the way these powers were devolved, we've been placed into older and outdated consenting processes by the UK Government that are not fit for purpose. This has put us at a disadvantage compared to other countries in the United Kingdom. These circumstances have caused a number of problems for developers and local communities in seeking to engage in the consenting process. It also discourages investment and growth in Wales through outdated and complex consenting regimes, which are not attractive or viable options to those seeking to invest here.

To address these issues, the Bill introduces a new unified consenting process, which will apply both on the land and in the territorial sea. It will include nationally significant projects where the Welsh Ministers currently have responsibility for consenting, such as onshore and offshore energy generating stations, overhead electric lines associated with devolved generating stations, as well as works to highways and railways. By replacing multiple consenting processes with a single process, we will help attract the essential investment we need, particularly in the renewable energy sector.

To provide the best possible consenting arrangements, this Bill has been developed with several key aims in mind. Firstly, it will ensure a streamlined and unified process. This will enable developers to access a one-stop shop, whereby permissions, consents, licences and other requirements currently issued under different consenting regimes can be obtained as one package. Secondly, it will offer a transparent, thorough and consistent process, which will allow communities to better understand and effectively engage in decisions that affect them. This will provide confidence and certainty in the decision-making process, which is underpinned by clear policy that strikes the right balance between the need for infrastructure projects to help combat climate change whilst respecting our natural environment. And finally, the new consenting process will be able to meet future challenges in a timely manner by being sufficiently flexible to capture new and developing technologies, as well as any further consenting powers that may be devolved to Wales.

As we are all aware, the delivery of such ambitious aims requires input and collaboration with a wide range of stakeholders, interested parties and local communities. This is why the principles the Bill seeks to legislate for have been subject to full public consultation and developed with ongoing engagement and communications with key stakeholders. This has allowed us to gauge the appetite for a new consenting process in Wales, and to provide an opportunity for stakeholders, including the wider public, to help shape the process to the benefit of everyone involved.

Dirprwy Lywydd, turning to the detail of the Bill, I will outline some of the key elements. The Bill clearly sets out the types and size of development projects identified as significant infrastructure projects to be captured by the new consenting process to achieve an appropriate balance between consenting at the national and local levels. Significant and meaningful consultation requirements are proposed to ensure early and ongoing engagement with stakeholders and local communities, which will begin with robust pre-application consultation requirements being placed on developers. The examination and determination process by which applications are to be assessed will be proportionate and flexible, whilst ensuring decisions are made against a clear policy framework. There will also be various enforcement tools available to ensure any breaches of an infrastructure consent order, or development undertaken without the necessary consent in place, can be effectively dealt with. It is also my intention that the consenting process will operate on the basis of full cost recovery, and the Bill provides the framework to achieve this.

Members will wish to note the Bill contains several powers to make subordinate legislation, which will set out much of the procedural detail required to make the consenting process fully operational. I've considered whether this level of detail is appropriate for inclusion in the Bill. I have concluded that, in order to allow for maximum flexibility to capture any necessary changes in the future, such details would be more appropriately placed in subordinate legislation. I have included justification for these powers in the explanatory memorandum that accompanies the Bill.

Dirprwy Lywydd, to conclude, I believe this Bill will deliver a consenting process for significant infrastructure projects that Wales deserves. I would also like to take this opportunity to express my thanks and gratitude to all those involved in the development of this Bill and the collaborative efforts made to reach this point. I look forward to working with you all as the Bill makes its way through the scrutiny process. Diolch.

Thank you, Minister, for bringing this here to us today. We know that the Wales Act 2017 devolved further consenting powers to Wales: energy generation stations with a capacity of up to and including 350 MW, onshore and in our Welsh waters; overhead electric lines of up to and including 132 kV that are associated with a devolved energy-generating project; and of course, consenting for harbour revision and empowerment orders. I think it's widely known that there is a need now for a more integrated and streamlined approach to infrastructure consenting. A one-stop-shop approach for major devolved projects, similar to the UK Government's development consent order process, would provide more consistent and transparent decision making, and more certainty for communities and developers alike. So, the consultation responses are really helpful. They show much support in response to the questions that have been asked of them. The consultation sets out a number of principles, which will underpin a new unified consenting process. These include basing decisions on clear policy, providing statutory time frames and streamlining the amount of consents required and strengthening the role of our local communities. And I don't think anybody can disagree with that. I just have some questions.

Could you provide, please, more information on the role of the statutory consultees? I believe that we are in agreement on the wish to strengthen the voice of local communities, but so far—. The Bill hasn't really started going, so it may be a little unfair to ask you to do this now, but if you could just respond maybe how you aim to strengthen their voice. Major infrastructure applications are, as we all know, very complex, and I know that, certainly in our community of Aberconwy, with all the renewable energy schemes that will be coming offshore, it's not wrong to say that, sometimes, residents can become a little overwhelmed. And when you mention to them, 'Oh, there's a full consultation process', trying to get them to engage can not be the easiest. So, how can we ensure that this Bill delivers a consultation process that is user friendly and that lay people can actually become fully engaged in?

Now, it is proposed to introduce optional thresholds for Welsh infrastructure projects alongside compulsory thresholds. Whereas projects that fall within the compulsory thresholds would be required to obtain a Welsh infrastructure consent, those projects within the optional thresholds would have a choice of obtaining a WIC or planning permission from the local planning authority. Now, I have been speaking to stakeholders on another issue only today, and it is clear that our LPAs are overwhelmed, certainly in terms of licensing and planning applications. There are already over 100 planning officer vacancies in Wales, and, even in the private sector, in terms of planning consultants, they're well above 100. So, at the end of the day, I do wonder how you're going to strengthen the framework so that developers know exactly who they're applying to.

Janet, you need to conclude now, please.

All right. Power to consult. Can you clarify how you are already working with the Secretary of State? Diolch.

Thank you, Janet. So, a number of specific questions there. The statutory consultees will be consulted at pre-application stage by the applicants, and at the examination stage by the Welsh Ministers. Where they are consulted, a substantive and timely response is required from the relevant statutory consultee. The Bill gives the Welsh Ministers powers to prescribe in subordinate legislation the form and content of a substantive response and the timescale for which the response must be provided. So, that will ensure all the necessary information is provided in a timely manner. Consulted bodies will be required to provide an annual report to the Welsh Ministers on their compliance with requirements set out in subordinate legislation. The list of authorities and bodies to be identified as statutory consultees will be set out in the subordinate legislation, but it's anticipated that many of the authorities and bodies currently consulted for the developments of national significance process will also be statutory consultees for the purpose of this process.

In terms of community engagement, we think that there is significant improvement in community engagement, because it will improve the level of service for developers and improve how communities can engage with consenting for major infrastructure projects. I think, Dirprwy Lywydd, we're all familiar with a situation in which constituents wish to get engaged in a consultation process, but they are very confused about whether they're engaged in the licence consenting process or the planning consenting process or one of the other consenting processes currently existing. What this will do is take that away. It will be a single process that will result in a infrastructure consent. So, for example, on a flood defence, instead of having to consult on the harbour revision order, the marine licence, the planning application, the highways issue and so on, there will be a single application. It will make it much simpler for communities to engage and much more understandable as to what they're engaging on. It's very frustrating when you're told that something isn't a consideration for the licence and will only be a consideration at some later stage. So, I do think it will improve that very substantially.

In terms of local planning departments, all of these things are currently being processed through Welsh planning departments or through the developments of national significance. So, we're not anticipating an enormous influx of applications, only a streamlining of the process. So, I'd suggest it would take things off the local planning process, rather than put it on. I will say, Janet, planning is one of the bureaucratic back-room processes that were so trashed throughout the years of austerity. It clearly isn't; it's clearly a service that's absolutely essential to any kind of infrastructure consent. Planning departments throughout Wales have been absolutely hollowed out by the austerity process, I absolutely agree with that, but you need to take some responsibility for that.

Thank you to the Minister for this statement this afternoon and for the opportunity to respond to it. Now, as a general principle, it's good to see that steps are afoot to simplify the process for giving consent to develop infrastructure of national importance. But there are questions arising that need to be aired before we go any further.

In her statement, the Minister mentioned creating a one-stop shop for consenting, licensing and responding to other requirements. Now, this is to be welcomed, and, on the face of it, it's positive, but how will this be provided? We will need to ensure that there are no bureaucratic barriers put in place, so I'd like to know what the vision is on how this one-stop shop will look. How will this new unified system respond to the different requirements and needs in areas across Wales?

I'm pleased to read that transparency, thoroughness and consistency in the process of decision making are central to this, in order to ensure effective governance. So, what mechanism will be put in place in order to empower our communities in this process? The local planning system as it currently exists is stacked against our communities and in favour of developers, so we need to ensure that the voices of our communities are given a prominent place in this more centralised process. I'd also like to hear the Minister's response to this: how will the Minister ensure that the voice of the community is heard?

Likewise, environmental considerations are central as we develop a plan for our national infrastructure, not just in terms of environmental projects, but also the carbon used. It's good to see this at the heart of the Bill. So, will the Minister take this opportunity to explain further how the environmental considerations will play into this process?

Further to that, more often than not, the justification given for any significant development is usually economic needs. But economic needs are often entirely contrary to ecological, linguistic, environmental and community needs. So, how does the Minister anticipate that the new system will strike that balance effectively? What consideration will be given, for example, to the linguistic needs in considering major projects?

Finally, I note that there is reference in the draft infrastructure Bill to geological disposal of radioactive waste. It talks about a hole at least 150 m deep under the surface of the land or sea bed. Now, if we create the waste, then it should be our responsibility to deal with that waste, but it's interesting to note that no local authorities in Wales had offered themselves to take that UK radioactive waste. I would like to know and to understand what the rationale and science are behind this particular section of the Bill. I understand that the intention is to gather data and samples, but it's a question as to whether a depth of 150 m is sufficient, because in Finland, for example, they bury it around a mile underground, and in reality, the wisest thing probably is not to bury radioactive waste at all, because of movement in the earth's crust. So, perhaps the Minister could give as an example, so we can understand the science behind it. Thank you.

Diolch, Mabon. So, there are a number of things; just to say it’s an overarching answer, before I get into some of the specifics. This Bill is a process Bill. It’s about changing the process by which we consent things. It is not a policy Bill, so it is not changing any of the underlying policies that go with those processes. So, if the Welsh Government has a policy against the burial of radioactive waste, then that policy continues in force. We still must have a process for dealing with an application, but the policy stays in place, and so the application, I would suggest, would be unlikely to be successful. And that’s the same for all of the other policies. We have to have a process for the applicant to follow, but obviously, that process would have to take account of the policy. So, a number of your questions come up against that. So, we will continue to have the same policies in place; we will continue, I’m sure, to debate the policies here and so on. This process will then apply the policies in that case. So, I think quite a few of the things you asked me are about the interaction of the policy and the process thing.

I think in terms of a couple of the other specific things, the whole point of this regime is to make it simpler for communities to engage. So, it will have compulsory engagement at pre-application stage and then during the process, by both the developer and all the deciding authorities—in this case, the Welsh Ministers—and that will be enforceable as part of the process. I very seriously believe, because I’ve had this myself with my own constituents on a large number of occasions, and I’m sure you will have as well, that the single process will make it easier for people to understand what it is they can contribute by way of an objection, or wanting some improvement on it, or whatever it is. Because I’m sure—I’ve just said this in response to Janet Finch-Saunders, and I’m sure you’ve come across it as well—people say, ‘I want to object to the use of the highway for blah', and you say, ‘Well, that’s not currently in question; it’s the licence that we’re currently looking at’, and so on. People get really frustrated, and rightly so. So, that won’t happen anymore, because they’ll be able to put the whole range of issues they wish to put forward in place for the one process.

The same goes for the environmental impact assessments and so on. I am very keen to get the right balance between environmental impact assessment, environmental protection, environmental restoration and enhancement, and infrastructure development—very keen indeed. So, the developers in their application—and, Deputy Llywydd, as this Bill makes its passage through our committees, I’m sure we’ll have some in-depth conversations here—the Bill currently proposes that the content of the application form and so on should be set out in regulations, and that’s so that we can update them very regularly with what we want the developers to have to put forward as part of the application. So, that would include, for example, environmental impact assessments or language impact assessments, or all kinds of other things that we do, and I would advocate very strongly that we need to be able to keep abreast of developments in that field and be able to continue to add them to the process, including, if we are successful in getting further devolution of powers, which I would very much like to see, in the territorial sea, for example, that we can seamlessly add them into the process, rather than having to go through this again.

I very much welcome this statement. Infrastructure is one of the three pillars for driving successful economic growth, along with access to finance and high-quality education. I also want to stress the importance of planning to control development and to stop blocking developments. I am pleased that the Bill introduces a modern and simplified regime for the consenting of significant infrastructure projects in Wales, both on the land and in the territorial seas. Having an efficient and effective consenting regime, I agree with you, Minister, is vital to the timely delivery of important infrastructure projects in Wales that make a positive contribution towards our social, economic and environmental prosperity and net-zero ambitions. I welcome that you're introducing a new unified consenting process, which will apply both on the land and in the territorial sea, but the question I've got is: will it make it easier for offshore wind energy to gain consent for generating, make it easier for it to join the grid, and for the necessary grid upgrades to take place?

Yes, thank you, Mike, and I agree; a streamlined process will bring many benefits. I'm not sure it's easier. It's more transparent what the process will be. It will make it much more obvious to the developer what they need to include in their initial application. It will make it easier for them to understand the costs of doing so, and what the likely mitigations necessary will be. And so, I think it will make it a more attractive place to invest. I'm not sure I would use the word 'easier', as such, because we want them to have to jump the various hurdles we put in place, but those hurdles will be obvious and transparent and they'll be able to put them into their planning process.

I also welcome this development. Thank you so much for outlining this and also for briefing me as well. It is something where we can see that large schemes, if scrutinised effectively and managed effectively, do hold applicants and developers to the highest possible standards. So, I can see the benefit of a streamlined and efficient and effective process, so thank you for developing this and bringing it before us here in the Senedd.

I just want to touch on one thing if I may. We rightly have ambitious targets around energy generation, and I just want to ask a specific question about local democracy and accountability. You talked, in response to Mabon, around it being processy, and I do get that, but very many people think that large developers are coming in, often riding roughshod over their local communities, extracting resources, causing years of disruption, and then going away, and we have one of those developments actually in my region in Mid and West Wales now, where communities feel quite voiceless and powerless. So, I guess my question to you is: how would you feel this actually helps local communities to have their voice heard and also makes the process transparent? Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch, Jane. I've said some of this before, but it's worth repeating, isn't it? There are improved and consistent pre-application consultation requirements incorporated in the process, on applicants of all types, for all types of infrastructure. There's a local impact report necessary, which comes from the local planning authority, which will enable them to express their very firm view. At the moment, if you have—. I'm not going to comment on any specific proposals, obviously, but if you are trying to develop an onshore energy generation system, you need a licence and planning consent for the thing itself; you need licences and planning consents for the transmission of the energy; you may need highway consents; you may need all kinds of other small licensing arrangements; you may need landlord—. You know, there is all kinds of stuff. What this does is put a single consenting process in place. So, if you have a community that's very concerned about the energy transmission arrangements, for example, they can object as part of the process. They can put their views in as part of the process. At the moment, I know people try to do that, and they say, 'Oh, that's not what we're looking at at the moment; we're currently looking at this bit.' What communities feel is that, 'Well, once they've got that bit, it's going to be much harder to object to this bit', and I have some sympathy with that. This allows a single process for the application, which means you don't have to turn concerned citizens away. They can get engaged and understand the throughput of the application. I genuinely do think that makes it easier to engage them, and you don't have this terrible kind of, 'This isn't the right time to put that forward, Mrs Jones', kind of thing, that we have had in the past.

The Welsh Ministers will be in charge of what constitutes an adequate consultation as well, which I think we will develop some case law about, I'm sure, as we go ahead, and we will have a very robust view, and I'm sure as we go through the committees, the committees will have a robust view on what constitutes decent engagement, and I'd like to see that reflected in this as the Bill goes through. I genuinely do think that the simplification of the process makes the policy ambition more transparent and makes communities much better able to engage. And then, just to say, we will continue to fund things like Planning Aid Wales, and so on, to help communities engage with the process.

I welcome the statement today. I think that there is a need to move forward to a modern, to a simplified, and to a much-needed regime. Lots of people have asked questions, of course, that I might have done, but Wales is facing an economic and environmental challenge on a scale that has never been the case before. In fact, all of Europe and the rest of the world are the same. And that in itself, alongside the war in Europe, has seen some real challenges in this space that we couldn't have been anticipating. But at the same time we could have the solutions here if that planning process allows those things to happen. I notice that the big infrastructure projects are the ones that are going to be captured here. So, my question is who decides what is big. Where is the criteria for that? You've answered a lot of the questions on community engagement, so I won't ask those. But are you going to align this with other policies so that we've got a spatial awareness of the impact, not just a streamlined planning process?

Thank you very much, Joyce—a very good set of questions indeed. I completely agree with your analysis of the problem. How we're going to approach it is the Bill itself will set out, in Part 1, the types of infrastructure projects and associated minimum thresholds that are automatically captured by the consenting regime that will be set out in the Bill. The list and thresholds can be built on by the Welsh Ministers, and they reflect, as you'd expect, very much the thresholds that are in the current developments of national significance process and other consenting regimes. They've been the subject of public consultation and engagement with stakeholders to inform them as well of that list, as you'd expect, Joyce. But I take the point you make, and it's a very good one. It's one of the ones that we've had some discussion about, and I'm sure we will in the committees as well.

We absolutely recognise that, in some instances, a quantitative threshold isn't appropriate as to whether a project is of such significance and complexity that it requires consenting through this unified process. So, the Bill, in its current form, enables Welsh Ministers to issue a direction as to whether a project that is outside of the qualifying threshold is nevertheless considered to be an SIP, as it's called—a significant infrastructure project. If it doesn't meet that threshold, or we decide not, then it will go through the normal planning process as normal. It will be similar—I know, Joyce, you do this yourself—to if you are being asked by constituents for the Welsh Ministers to call in a planning application—that's where a planning application is deemed by the Welsh Ministers to be of more than local significance. A very similar process will occur to make sure that even though a project is below threshold, it might be of such importance to the economy of Wales or to the people of Wales that we think it should come through this process. So, those will be incorporated.

I welcome the statement. The questions earlier highlighted how we need public sector funding to be able to deliver private sector as well, and I'm glad that they will be contributing to the planning process. I hope social value, maybe through energy for communities, community infrastructure levies or section 106 funding, will be tied in as well. Minister, can you outline how the Bill will simplify the consenting system in Wales? You may have covered it slightly before, but if you could elaborate a little bit further. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Carolyn. Yes, the idea is to have a full cost recovery system. I've always been a little bit baffled by why the public purse is expected to subsidise the planning or licensing applications of various private-sector individuals. We certainly want to make sure provisions exists to make sure that that doesn't happen, going forward, and that these developments pay for themselves in that sense.

The Welsh Ministers will then be in charge of the process, so any conditions—antecedent or precedent or whatever—that are necessary for this will be part of that process. So, negotiations around highways orders, harbour revision orders, all that kind of stuff, will be part of the process. The costs associated with those, and the benefits associated, will also be part of the process.

In terms of local planning authorities, these are projects that are probably being dealt with in a local planning authority at the moment as a series of very diverse applications. A flood defence, for example, in north Wales, in your region, would have gone, perhaps, through a marine consent, a planning consent, a harbour revision order consent, a highways consent, an energy diversion consent—blah, blah—whereas now, it will come through a single, unified process, and it will divert that work away from the local authority where it's an issue of such complexity.

Finally, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I really do welcome this statement today because of the impact that this could have potentially on us achieving our net-zero targets, but also because of the potential impact on driving those green jobs as well, energy security, and the development of some of our ports infrastructure as well, such as that in Port Talbot, Milford Haven and so on.

Minister, one of the challenges with this is getting the balance right, of course, in terms of a streamlined, unified structure. People often say, 'Why don't they get on with these things?' and then, quite rightly, people concerned with environmental impacts say, 'Yes, but we've got to get the environmental consenting right, and we've got to make sure that the public are engaged meaningfully as well'. So, what does this simplified, unified approach mean for shortening timescales on delivery of projects so that these projects are up and running, and we can hit our net-zero targets; for the environmental aspect of this in consenting in this unified approach, how we safeguard that environmental protection; and also for meaningful engagement with the public? I realise this triple stool is very difficult, but if any one of those three legs falls down, the whole stool topples over in terms of consenting.

And just to flag up as well, Dirprwy Lywydd, if I might, I'm sure all the committees will be looking at the balance between what's on the face and what the Minister once again takes into that flexibility of secondary regulations and guidance.

Diolch, Huw. I did wonder whether I'd managed to slide that one past you or not. I'm sure we'll have some robust discussions about what is necessary on the face of the Bill and what is necessary for regulatory action.

You're right; the triple stool, as you rightly called it, is a tricky balance, but this doesn't take away any of the responsibilities of the developer to have put the application in in a good position. In fact, it will make it very clear to the developer what is expected by way of an application, and that application will have inside it all of the various needs for an environmental impact assessment, habitats directive assessments and so on—it will be set out very plainly.

Will it speed it up? It will speed it up once the application is in good order, but if it's necessary to monitor a habitat for a year because you need to know what the seasonal variation is, it's not going to shorten that; you're still going to have to do all of the right assessment, evaluation, monitoring and so on. It's just once you've got the information, and that information is shared in the format specified in the regulations, so we don't have nonsense arguments about, 'Well, I used a different system entirely, but it's just as good', which I've seen on multiple occasions—. It will be very clear that you use the system set out in the regulations, which is why I think they should be in regulations, by the way—get my arguments in first. And then, once the application is in and the pre-application stage is finished and all of those consultation are done, the process will be much more speedy because it will not require multiple consenting regimes to kick in. I think that's the real issue.

I thank the Minister.

Item 5 is next, and that's a statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: quality statement for diabetes. I call on the Minister to make the statement—Eluned Morgan.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Today, as part of Diabetes Week, I have published the quality statement for diabetes, setting out the key service priorities for the development of better diabetes care across Wales.

Diabetes has a significant impact on our population. Around 7 per cent of the population is registered with a diagnosis of diabetes. That's around 207,000 people and their families affected. It's estimated that the NHS uses around 10 per cent of its budget to treat diabetes and the serious complications it can cause. The same study that was undertaken in, I think, 2012 predicted that that would rise to 17 per cent by the mid 2030s, given the likely growth in the number of people with diabetes. So, it's clearly a very serious problem for our population and the future sustainability of our NHS. We can already see how the NHS is struggling to meet increased population need for treatment and care. These pressures will only get more difficult to deal with and have yet more serious consequences if we don't act as a society, if we don't come together to address the risk factors associated with conditions such as diabetes, cardiovascular disease and cancer.

Let me be absolutely clear that type 1 diabetes, which affects around 16,000 people in Wales, cannot be prevented. People with type 1 diabetes tend to be diagnosed during childhood and have to manage through adolescence and into adulthood with vital support from our NHS. But the link between obesity and type 2 diabetes is firmly established. Without a healthy diet and appropriate exercise, obesity can lead to type 2 diabetes over a relatively short period of time. We know reducing body weight, by even a small amount, can help improve insulin sensitivity and lower the risk of developing conditions such as type 2 diabetes, heart disease, and some cancers. We know obesity and physical inactivity are more prominent in areas of greater deprivation. If we're going to avoid some really difficult decisions down the line about what the NHS can provide more broadly, then we need to address these risk factors and their determinants. This includes what we can do in Government; what local government does to enable people to live healthier lifestyles; the role of industry, and in particular the food industry; and how every single person lives their life. We must all pull in a healthier direction if we are to have a sustainable NHS.

Our approach to prevent and reduce obesity rates is set out in our 10-year 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' strategy. We've continued to invest more than £13 million between 2022 and 2024 to improve access to treatment and increase the focus of partners on prevention. We're using a mix of funding, policy and legislation to drive change.

The Deputy Minister for Mental Health will be making an oral statement on 27 June, and this statement will set out our next steps with regard to price promotions on foods and where those foods are located in shops. As part of the strategy, we have also invested £1 million per year into the all-Wales diabetes prevention programme. This programme is being piloted across Wales to help those on the cusp of developing diabetes, to put a bit of distance between them and the condition. There have been more than 800 consultations through the programme, and I recently visited the programme in Cardiff and Vale, alongside Lynne Neagle, to see for ourselves how it works.

As well as this primary prevention, the quality statement for diabetes focuses on NHS support for people with the condition. It includes the development of so-called 'remission' services, where some people with a recent diagnosis can be supported through radical changes to their diets and their lifestyles to reverse the development of type 2 diabetes. The statement places a great deal of focus on good supportive care, to help people manage their diabetes well, including the delivery of routine reviews, diabetes technology and education programmes. This support will help people to avoid the serious complications of damage to the heart, kidneys, eyes and feet.

And finally, we've also included tertiary prevention, where we monitor for early signs of other disease, such as retinopathy, through the diabetes eye screening Wales service. Ultimately, our aim is to prevent people from developing type 2 diabetes, and, for those who do develop the condition, to ensure that the NHS is providing the support that people need to manage their condition as best they can. The quality statement is intended to guide the consistent planning of NHS services through the setting out of national expectations and clinical pathways of care. We will work closely with the NHS to implement this through our local planning processes. Progress will be measured through the national clinical audits for diabetes, and we will increasingly make this information public so that we can all see what progress has been made, and where we need to focus our improvement efforts. And we will ensure that these expectations are realised through the NHS accountability arrangements. Thank you very much.

Can I thank the Minister for the statement today? I'm pleased that we have a quality statement for diabetes in Wales, because I think we need something for Government policy to orientate around a set of guidance or aims that will help focus policy makers in every sector to eliminate preventable diabetes. I think it is significant, isn't it, that one in 13 people in Wales live with diabetes. That's roughly the population of Wrexham, Barry, Llanelli and Merthyr Tydfil combined. So, I think that does give us some perspective of the problem at hand. And Wales is on track to see a third of its population reach obesity and 10 per cent developing diabetes. We already, of course, also have the highest prevalence of diabetes of all UK nations.

So, one of the ways to review the current level and status of care for people living with diabetes in Wales is the national diabetes audit. NDA data is a measure of the effectiveness of delivery of diabetes care against the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines. So, the data is, I think, pretty crucial in monitoring, identifying and recognising good and less good care. So, I wonder if the Minister could tell us what she expects the NDA data for this year to be. Has she any indication that Wales is now performing better and will be back to, perhaps, pre-pandemic levels at least? So, a sense of where she thinks that is or going to be.

I should also note that the NDA data does not cover children, so we are relying on the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health report. Their most recent report for England and Wales in 2022 found that incidence of type 1 diabetes increased significantly by 21 per cent in just one year, and half of children with type 2 diabetes were assessed as needing additional psychological support. Now, as I've understood it, Minister—I might be wrong here—but Wales only releases its data at health board level every 18 months. And as I've understood it, in England it is quarterly and can be seen at GP cluster level. So, I wonder if that is correct and the Minister agrees with that position. Does the Government have any plans to change the way data is released and how often we can see it, because such levels of scrutiny would be, I think, welcomed in Wales to help determine how best to improve services in Wales to ensure that people receive equal access and treatment, no matter, of course, where they live?

Last month, Public Health Wales released the latest child measurement programme for six health boards within Wales for school years 2021-22, and across five of these, the proportions of children with obesity were higher compared to the proportions reported in 2018-19. Now, as the Minister has pointed out in her statement, given the link between obesity and diabetes, I wonder if the Minister perhaps can tell us how she's working with the education Minister to communicate the links between diabetes and diets to pupils, teachers and parents. I know the Minister touched a little on that in her statement.

Thank you very much. I think the situation is very, very serious, and as a nation, we need to take this very seriously, because frankly if we don’t, the situation will be unsustainable for the NHS, and the costs will run away from our ability to pay for it. So, everybody needs to take this seriously, and what we’re trying to set out here are some expectations in terms of what those people with diabetes can expect across every health board as a quality standard, so we’ll get away from a postcode approach.

One of the things you talked about is the transparency and the access to data, and that’s certainly something that I’m interested in seeing—how can we make sure that we get more access to the data? Because I think transparency, actually, helps to shine a light on those areas that are perhaps falling behind. So, that’s certainly something that I’ve talked to my officials about.

Just in terms of where we’re at, in terms of the national diabetes audit, we’re still not back to where we were pre pandemic, so that’s not good enough and we need to see improvements. So, I am expecting the data to be better, but part of what we’re trying to do here is to make sure that everybody has a very clear understanding of what the expectations are. It has not been consistent in terms of which GPs have gone back to the national diabetes audit that is expected and that was happening pre pandemic. So, there are pockets, they’re varied, and we need to see better consistency.

Just in terms of children, of course type 1 diabetes, that’s usually actually detected whilst people are children, so we need to make sure that all of that—. It’s very different, and I think we probably should deal with it very differently from type 2 diabetes. One of the things that we do have to take seriously also is the psychological support. It’s very interesting—Lynne Neagle, the Deputy Minister, and I went to visit a project yesterday in Cardiff where we met a woman who was very, very anxious because of her diabetes situation, and the course that she’d been put on in Cardiff and the Vale had helped her not just in terms of her ability to get a better grip on weight loss and how to approach that issue, but also she’d been given psychological support, and the mental health issues that she’d been experiencing were actually alleviated hugely by the support that she’d been given.

Just in terms of the child measure programme, frankly the pandemic didn’t help; people were locked up for a long time. The cost-of-living crisis doesn’t help, and as we know, there is a larger issue in relation to obesity in more deprived areas, so the cost-of-living crisis does not help with this, frankly.

Just in terms of where we’re heading, I think self-management has got to be part of where we get to, and some of that will involve apps, some of that will involve making sure that people use technology to monitor their own health. So, I think we’re all beginning on a journey here. I think some people are way ahead on that journey in terms of their use of self-management of health issues, but we need to drive those improvements, and that is quite difficult at the moment, frankly, because we haven’t got as much money as we’d like to invest in the transformational digital space.

Thank you to the Minister for her statement. I welcome much of what we've heard from the Minister today. There are questions as to how appropriate quality statements are in and of themselves in making a difference. What we'll be looking at now is, what happens once we have had that quality statement, in order to ensure that that quality standard is reached. Otherwise, they are only words. So, we look forward to holding the Government to account on how that quality statement will be delivered.

Hearing the statistics again from the Minister is very striking indeed. The figure of 10 per cent of all NHS expenditure being spent on diabetes is a decade and more old now, and it's possible that up to 17 per cent of the budget will be spent on diabetes by 2030. It strikes me, therefore, that there is a question around the resources pledged today, to fund the work of diabetes prevention. The Minister will well know that I am pleased to hear her talking about the preventative and the importance of that. But I was looking at figures that suggested that some 2.8 per cent of health expenditure across the EU is preventative. A report by the WHO suggests that some 3 per cent of expenditure is on preventative services in effective health services. If we think that £9 billion is spent on health, and 10 per cent of that on diabetes, well, we should be spending more than £1 million per annum on trying to prevent diabetes in the first instance. So, I would like to hear from the Minister whether this is the beginning of the journey, and whether it is the intention to ramp that figure up over time in order to ensure that we are investing in something that will bring financial benefits in years to come, never mind the health benefits.

Just a few other things. I am very pleased to see the commitment to ensuring that care is based on individual need. Providing regular support is extremely important. Research clearly shows how important that is. It is a little concerning for me that the latest statistics from the National Diabetes Audit show that less than a third—29 per cent—of people living with diabetes in Wales have received all of the crucial check-ups in 2021-22, and that is quite a bit lower than it was pre COVID. So, how confident is the Minister that that figure can be increased, and what's the plan for ensuring that those statistics are improved?

Finally, a question on technology. The quality statement makes a number of references to technology. I know how crucial technology is. A recent survey by Diabetes UK Cymru of patients who do live with type 1 diabetes say that 85 per cent had reported that technology is a great help for them in managing the condition. So, what will be done, therefore, to ensure that the technology is available to everyone in order to ensure that equitable care is provided to all those who suffer, but also to ensure that the care is of as high a quality as it can be?

Thank you very much. Just a few issues there. In terms of the quality statement, part of what we will be doing with the NHS executive is to ensure that we do monitor now that the quality statement is achieved. So, they know exactly where they should be reaching, and the role of the NHS executive will be to demonstrate that. And of course, we will have an opportunity through the IMTPs to see what they have in mind in terms of how they are going to achieve this quality statement.

With regard to resources, there is a problem when it comes to resources. There is a resources problem in the NHS at present. It's serious, and so we do have to consider every penny that we spend. You will be aware that we have just awarded a great deal of money to those who work in the NHS, and that's the right thing to do. But it does mean that there is less money available for services, and that's a challenge for us.

We have to ensure, therefore, that we do understand that this is a partnership. So, we have to do it with the public. I think that we have to reach a point where people aren't perhaps overly dependent on the services, but that we are there to help them through, holding their hand—but we're not going to do it for them. We can't do everything for people in the future; we have to do it with them. People have to take responsibility, and what we understand is that it's difficult. It's really, really difficult for many people to lose weight, and that's why we have to stand alongside them through this preventative phase to prevent type 2 diabetes from developing. So, in every health board there is a pre-diabetes programme—that's located in every health board by now. We're just starting on a journey that will have to be accelerated at some point, when we do have the funding to do so.

In terms of the national diabetes audit, I have been speaking to Diabetes UK about this. I do think that we have to improve the number of check-ups that have taken place, but chronic condition management is part of the core element of the GMS contract. So, that's another opportunity for us.

With regard to the technology, I am very eager, because I do think that this is an opportunity for us to release many people who work in the NHS. If we get people to help themselves through the technology, that's going to release people to do other things. Our problem, once again, is that we are financially challenged at present, and that is an issue for us.

So, I do think that there is a great deal that communities can do—so, things like the Nifty 60s. It's not just good for people's physical health, it's really good for people's mental health and for seeing communities coming together. So, I'm eager to see a great deal more of that happening in our communities.

I'm very grateful to the Minister for this very welcome statement today, and, as chair of the cross-party group on diabetes, it's really positive to hear the focus Welsh Government is giving to diabetes, the measures being taken and the expectations to address the needs of many who are living with diabetes. The Minister has already outlined the scale of the challenge ahead of us and the scale of the problem for people living with diabetes.

Earlier this year, Diabetes UK asked people living with diabetes to complete a survey as part of the Diabetes Is Serious campaign, and it's good to see that this quality statement reflects many of the concerns raised by respondents in Wales, including on equity, psychological support and the need to utilise technology. I'm glad to see those recognised today.

This statement builds on the good work already happening in the all-Wales diabetes prevention programme, the remissions programme—they're all deserving of recognition, but what's always clear, through every campaign or meeting we have as a cross-party group, is the importance of early diagnosis and early engagement. Does the Minister agree with me that we need to do all we can to promote the knowledge about the signs of diabetes, the difference between the types of diabetes and the risks that lead to type 2 diabetes? It must be reiterated that asking for support is important, whether for type 1 or type 2 diabetes, and people should engage as early as possible if they have symptoms of type 1 or type 2 diabetes. Diolch.

Thanks very much, Jayne, and thanks very much, in particular, for your work with the cross-party group on diabetes. I think it's really important having these cross-party groups, because it does bring pressure to bear on us as Government Ministers, and I actually welcome that. I think it's important that we're held to account.

I'm really pleased that we've been able to respond to some of the points made by people across Wales, and some of the things I outlined in my presentation, psychological support—it's really serious. People get very upset, and we need to be there and we need to give them that support. Technology and equity—I think all of those are well understood.

So, early diagnosis—I think you're absolutely right, and part of what we have to try and expose is, as you say, what are the early signs. What are the early signs? What should people be looking out for? And also do people really understand the risks? Having diabetes—right, okay, well, I've got to start doing this, that and the other. Actually, the consequence of not managing it properly can be quite serious.

Now, I do think it's really important we distinguish between type 1 diabetes and type 2 diabetes, and there's another type of diabetes, which is quite rare, that very few people talk about, and, obviously, we recognise that as well. So, I think promoting and helping people to understand those early signs of diabetes is probably not a bad idea, and I'll go back and ask what more we can do in that space. Thank you.

I'm very grateful to the Minister for bringing this quality statement for diabetes forward today, and she just touched in her previous answer around the more rare form of diabetes, type 3c. I declare an interest, Dirprwy Lywydd, as my father was diagnosed with type 3c diabetes following a nasty bout of necrotising pancreatitis, one of the causes of type 3c diabetes. And back in October of last year, I used a business statement to call for a statement to be brought forward specifically on raising clinical awareness about type 3c diabetes and how individuals living with the condition can be supported, and I remember the Minister nodding along as I asked that question and when the Trefnydd answered as well, and she's nodding along today, and I'm grateful for that, and it's often misrepresented as being another type of diabetes, when, in fact, it's its own type. And while there is no specific mention of type 3c diabetes in this statement—and I'm not expecting the Minister to give a full answer, given the rarity of it; approximately 8 per cent of all diabetes sufferers are type 3c diabetes sufferers—could I just get, possibly, a written statement from the Minister, just focusing on type 3c diabetes and what the Welsh Government is doing to support those patients living with that form of diabetes? Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Thanks very much. As I mentioned in the point I made to Jayne, we absolutely recognise that there is a third pillar that people don't talk about so much, and I was very grateful to you for bringing that debate to the floor of the Chamber, and that gave us an opportunity to air that issue and, certainly, I know that that is something that is recognised by experts in the field, and that again—. I think it's slightly different from the kind of enormous challenge that we have in relation to the more general, type 2 diabetes. That's where the major, major challenge is for our nation and for our NHS, and that's why I've concentrated today on those areas. But the quality statement itself covers all three types of diabetes.

Thank you, Minister, for your statement. I really welcome in particular your emphasis on good supportive care. This can make all the difference in ensuring that the one in 14 people in Wales with diabetes can best manage their condition. Yesterday, I was fortunate to meet with the Cwmbach Diabetes UK group at their information stand in Ysbyty Cwm Cynon. They do excellent work in raising awareness of what it's like to live with diabetes, helping break down barriers by offering a friendly face for anyone newly diagnosed with this condition and supporting self-management strategies. Minister, will you join with me in paying tribute to these volunteers, and how do you imagine such local groups fitting into your vision of improved care and support, particularly in terms of offering that peer support mentioned in the quality statement?

I was also able to have a catch-up about the work of the all-Wales diabetes patient reference group, chaired by my constituent Wendy Gane MBE, who I know have contributed to the development of this statement. The value of the patient reference group is paramount in ensuring that diabetes services and resources are co-produced with people who have diabetes. This completely chimes with the person-centred approach set out in the quality statement, so how will you ensure that the patient reference group and the lived experience of its members are an integral part of this process moving forward?

Thank you very much, and I'd like to thank Vikki for her work, and it just amazes me, Vikki, how you manage to get around so many community groups. Almost every time you speak, you've just been to see somebody in relation to that, so you've done it again. So, thank you very much for that, and thank you also to the people in that Cwmbach community diabetes group, because I actually think that having groups come together, sharing their experience—. I think people can encourage each other, and there are lots and lots of examples where some people have managed to get their diabetes into remission through catching it early enough. And that's the space for the big win here, I think, is to really try and catch it early. But if you do have a more advanced form, then self-management is going to be key, because if you aren't managing it well, then that is more likely to lead to more difficult and more complicated health issues.

So, this quality statement is very much focused on the NHS, what is the NHS's responsibility. So, really, this bit is not about communities; that's more covered in the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' approach, which is understanding that there's a broader issue for us all as a society to understand what our responsibilities are, and, as I said, Lynne Neagle will be making a statement very soon on the kind of environment that encourages, frankly, people to eat a lot of junk food, food that we know is not healthy, not good for us, and I know that she will be making a statement in the next few weeks about that.

We very much valued the work and the input of the diabetes reference group into developing this programme. That's partly why we've got this person-centred approach. I think what's going to be important moving forward is that we make sure that that voice continues to be heard. Now, we have got this new organisation, Llais, which is the voice of the public in relation to the interaction and the voice of the patient in relation to the NHS, so I'm hoping that they'll find a way through that mechanism, and, if they're not satisfied with the services that they've got, that they will use that as a method to go in.

And finally, Joel James.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you, Minister, for your comprehensive statement today about the future of diabetes care in Wales. As you may recall, I recently brought up in this Chamber with the First Minister the SEREN programme, which is an accredited and structured education programme for children and young people with type 1 diabetes, which has been developed in Wales to help with the transition from primary to secondary education. The First Minister responded to my question by saying that, and I quote, the

'NHS Executive has been asked to look at how best to sustain the programme'

and that the health Minister

'will be making an oral statement on the future of diabetes services and these new arrangements in front of the Senedd in June.'

I recognise that in point 18 of the quality statement it mentions that health boards will provide

'at regular intervals an accessible structured diabetes education programme',

but the statement and yourself haven't specifically mentioned the SEREN programme. With this in mind, and given the success of the programme, especially in delivering a reduction in HbA1c levels and the dedication shown by staff who have developed and implemented the programme, I'm keen to know whether it is your intention to fund the SEREN programme going forward, and, if so, if that is more long-term funding. Thank you.

Thanks very much, Joel. There's a reason why I haven't mentioned the SEREN programme, and that's because this is an NHS quality statement. The SEREN programme is very much an education programme for children and young people, so it's not directly NHS in that sense, and that's why I haven't mentioned it directly.

We recognise that, actually, there is a huge amount of work that we need to do in different areas to bring this to people's attention, but this quality statement is very much an NHS statement, rather than the broader approach, and some of that will be already covered in the 'Healthy Weight: Healthy Wales' programme and will be perhaps covered in the statement that the Deputy Minister will be making very soon.

I thank the Minister.

Item 6 this afternoon is the statement by the Minister for Social Justice on Refugee Week, 19-25 June—compassion. I call on the Minister, Jane Hutt, to make the statement.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Next week marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of Refugee Week and we will once again celebrate the contributions sanctuary seekers make to Wales. Refugee Week brings together people from all backgrounds to create better understanding within our communities and promote integration and equality for all.

Refugee Week reminds us of the courage and resilience of those who must leave their family, friends and home to escape persecution or war. We continue to hear brutal stories of the effect of Putin's illegal actions in Ukraine, as a stark and high-profile example of this, and we continue to stand strong with the Ukrainian people. But many of those forced to flee to the UK are also being persecuted simply for being who they are, and sanctuary seekers often have harrowing and complex histories of abuse precipitating their arrival here.

This year's theme is 'compassion'. Compassion has long been a part of Welsh culture. In 1914, 16,000 people crossed the channel in one day to escape the horrors of the first world war. Wales welcomed 4,500 Belgians fleeing that conflict. From the 1930s, Jewish refugees arrived in the UK fleeing the racial and religious hatred that ultimately culminated in the Holocaust. Aberystwyth University has recently undertaken excellent research documenting the experiences of the Kindertransport children in Wales.

More recently, in 2016, every Welsh local authority provided sanctuary for Syrians needing to come to Wales. In 2021, we worked hard to support evacuations from Afghanistan, forging a pioneering approach with Urdd Gobaith Cymru, local key stakeholders and the UK Government to ensure we could accommodate sanctuary seekers in the shadow of this very building. We believe around 1,000 to 2,000 Hong Kongers have come to Wales fleeing the Chinese state's national security law since the new visa pathway was opened in 2021.

Since February 2022, our nation of sanctuary vision has reached significant new heights. For the first time ever, the Welsh Government has directly sponsored the visas of 3,100 Ukrainians who have travelled to the UK, with 1,500 individuals with visas remaining outside the UK but having the peace of mind of knowing that they can come to safety if they need to. More importantly still, Welsh households have thrown open their doors and their hearts to those needing to escape. Over 3,600 Ukrainians came to the UK, sponsored by Welsh individuals, and many more households are hosting Ukrainians informally. Households have put into practice the vision we have for Wales, and this has truly been the nation of sanctuary in action.

I can update today that £8 million has been confirmed by the UK Government for Wales to support Ukrainian integration, and Ukrainians can continue to use their driving licences for the duration of their stay in the UK.

Dirprwy Lywydd, as this brief summary shows, across waves of resettlement, Welsh communities, local government, third sector and other key partners have worked tirelessly to support asylum seekers coming to Wales from all over the globe. Wales has shown, time and again over the last century and more, that there is a welcome in the hillside. Of course, despite our pride in these immense efforts, there’s more to be done to support those arriving and the communities that receive them. We're very alert to the rise of the far right, and we know that Wales is not immune to the hatred and intolerance we've seen elsewhere. Even here we’ve seen protests outside accommodation sites, and I want to reiterate clearly that there is no home for hate in Wales.

We are privileged to offer sanctuary to those who arrive in Wales. In January 2019, we launched our nation of sanctuary plan and, since then, I've been truly heartened by the response across Wales. The city of sanctuary charter has guided organisations in many sectors, supporting the overarching nation of sanctuary vision. Next week, I'll meet schools that have achieved school of sanctuary status, including children from two schools in Cardiff. I'm welcoming them on the steps of the Senedd to welcome them as part of the walk of peace. And I'd like to extend my heartfelt gratitude to the schools, colleges, universities, towns and cities of sanctuary in Wales for the dedication and enthusiasm that has been shown in their time as pillars of sanctuary within their communities. I applaud the work of the City of Sanctuary charity that supports and endorses these organisations in Wales.

Refugee Week falls on 19 June to 25 June. As we've already heard, 2023 also marks the twenty-fifth anniversary of Refugee Week. Refugee Week is the world's largest arts and culture festival, celebrating the contributions, creativity and resilience of refugees and people seeking sanctuary, founded in 1998 in the UK and held every year around World Refugee Day on 20 June. The theme of Refugee Week 2023, as we've heard, is compassion, chosen in the belief that, together, we can create a shared understanding of compassion to ensure we're extending it widely to all.

Responding to your previous statements on both Ukraine and the nation of sanctuary, I repeatedly raised the issue of housing, and proposed modular housing as part of the solution, as across the water in Ireland. In your response to me on 9 May, you referred to the need to remove our Ukrainian guests into longer term accommodation, some of which is modular accommodation developed across Wales. So, what, if any, specific allocation is being provided for refugees?

Further, now that the £150 million fund to help Ukrainians into their own homes has been formally announced by the UK Government, including the £8 million for Wales that you referred to, will the Minister confirm how this will be allocated and whether it will be distributed via the Welsh Government and/or to councils to help Ukrainian families into private rented accommodation and find work, as in England?

As I restated to you in my reply on 9 May,

'we've long provided a safe haven for victims of persecution, violence, ethnic cleansing and genocide from across the world, and long may that remain the case, because if we ever lose that, we'll have lost our humanity and true identity.'

In this context, how does the Minister respond to this week's report from the Home Affairs Committee in the UK Parliament—cross party, but chaired by a Labour MP—which found little evidence to indicate significant numbers of Albanian nationals at risk in their own country and requiring asylum in the UK, although, and this is critical,

'some Albanian citizens making asylum claims will have been trafficked, and women are disproportionately at risk from this form of crime. The UK has an obligation to support trafficking victims and they should only be returned to Albania if appropriate safeguards are in place'?

How do you respond to the deal announced last Thursday to overhaul the EU's asylum processes—clearly, we're not part of them, but they're on our borders—ensuring that certain asylum seekers get processed immediately at the border, making it easier to return those whose applications are rejected, and allowing countries to stop processing people at the border if they reach a certain limit?

Diolch yn fawr, Mark Isherwood, and thank you for acknowledging the history of Refugee Week. It is the twenty-fifth anniversary of Refugee Week, and recognising the importance of the theme of compassion.

Just picking up as many points as I can from your questions, in terms of the move-on, which is progressing at speed—the move-on of our Ukrainian guests who come to Wales—it is encouraging to see the latest figures. Latest figures show that of those arriving under the supersponsor route, over 1,700 have now moved on into longer term accommodation, with over 1,000 of those settling within Wales. It is very important—and this was acknowledged earlier on in relation to the response to the international relations statement—that move-on and support for our guests—indeed, for all our asylum seekers and refugees—is very much a part of the team Wales approach, working with local authorities to play their part.

Can I say today, again, thank you to our local authorities in Wales—and I'm sure you would join me, and Members would join me in that—for delivering that Ukrainian humanitarian response, and for the fact that we have made funding available, through the transitional accommodation capital programme, made available as a result of the Minister for Climate Change's initiative, to ensure that there are investments in transitional accommodation? Nine hundred and thirty-six properties were funded under the transitional accommodation capital programme—additional homes funded for this year and into next year. And it's a range of accommodation solutions across Wales, not just modular housing, but also bringing void or mothball properties back into use, converting buildings, demolition, and new build as well. It is important that we see this in the context of the findings of the Local Government and Housing Committee report on housing Ukrainian refugees, which was published earlier on this year, and the fact that the Welsh Government has committed to support the move, particularly the move-on into longer term accommodation, with an additional £40 million investment over the next financial year.

There are important points that you raise in your questions about the fact that we have an asylum and resettlement policy, which I do not believe can succeed unless we have, as I've laid out, those safe and legal routes. Indeed, the Home Secretary has said herself the asylum system is broken. But, if it's to change, it's the UK Government that's got to reverse its hostile environment strategy and develop those sufficient safe and legal routes for asylum seekers. And to claim asylum from outside the UK is to negate that need for perilous journeys and disrupt the business model of people smugglers, which is still obviously having an impact in relation to the questions that you raise, and it does include those from Albania.

I want to associate myself and Plaid Cymru wholly with the comments made by the Minister regarding the fact that asylum seekers and refugees are not statistics or a media topic but people, all of whom have had difficult journeys and experiences. They are our brothers and sisters, ein brodyr a'n chwiorydd. Compassion, the theme of this year's Refugee Week, is defined as a feeling of pity, of sympathy and of understanding for someone who is suffering. To act on that compassion is the basis of all humanitarian action.

Following Russia's barbaric and illegal invasion of Ukraine and millions forced to flee their homes, many Governments and ordinary people across the world embraced the challenge of providing sanctuary for this new group of refugees in their nations, including, of course, here in Wales. And Minister, I echo your thanks to the local authorities, organisations like Urdd Gobaith Cymru, and families and communities throughout Wales for the welcome they've provided. But this collective and impressive demonstration of compassion for Ukrainian refugees has also revealed much about the nature and limits of this compassion. We have seen tensions and questions arise about the way we treat some types of refugees as opposed to others. Some are being viewed by some politicians and the press as more deserving than others.

The Arithmetic of Compassion project aims to raise awareness of how this occurs, and its effect on our humanitarian decision making. The researcher and co-creator of the project, University of Oregon psychologist Paul Slovic, has shown that the larger the number of people that are in need, the less inclined we often feel to help them. Dr Slovic says our feelings engage most strongly when one person is in distress. Two people in distress doesn't concern us twice as much. Once we get up to the tens of thousands, they're just numbers. Researchers like Dr Slovic say we need to understand this response that our compassion for large numbers of people in trouble shrinks when we start to feel overwhelmed, to ensure all those in need of our compassion and support receive our compassion and support.

The rhetoric of Conservative Members both here in Wales and in Westminster has fuelled rather than aimed to combat this emotion-driven response—shamefully, and for cynical political ends. The UK Government's cruel policies against refugees show no compassion, from housing refugees in prison-style barges and disused military camps, to forcing asylum seekers to share cramped hotel rooms, or eventual deportation to Rwanda—there is seemingly no bottom to this barrel. The recent plans announced, without consultation, to accommodate 200 asylum seekers across 77 rooms in the Stradey Park Hotel in Llanelli is an example of policy not led by compassion, but by an inhumane approach to others’ situations. No empathy, no understanding, no support.

Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams. As you say, Wales is a nation of sanctuary. Thank you for enlightening us with that research from the University of Oregon. I look forward to looking at that. We have to learn from the evidence of how we can be truly a nation of sanctuary, even with the limits of our powers, but we will take more responsibility over and above our powers. We know that. We want to do all we can to provide that warm welcome in the short term, and ensure that our communities are enriched by skills and experience in the very near future. It has been so extraordinary in terms of the history in Wales of that welcome in the last decade or so. I have also talked about the welcome for our Syrian, Afghan and Ukrainian refugees in enriching communities, households, schools, all the sectors. And isn’t it important? This is something that I really want to endorse today.

The City of Sanctuary UK charity, which actually has come under attack from Welsh Conservatives, actually has schools, universities, colleges, towns, communities all over Wales signing up to it, and also, in England, Conservative councils as well, and the local authorities network. I condemn that attack, because that stirs up misunderstanding about the charter. Again, I draw attention to it in my statement, because we applaud this—this is a charity that is working so hard—because it actually enables people to understand the great strength of being a nation of sanctuary at every level. I hope colleagues will join me in welcoming these schools. St Mary the Virgin school down the road, a Church in Wales school, which is very integrated, multifaith, has got a whole week of events, and it’s just on our doorstep, and some of them will be coming. They are actually celebrating the fact that they have a school of sanctuary award, and we should be celebrating them here today, as I’m sure we will.

But I just want to say, in terms of your point, this is about the fact that we are held back by the UK Government, by the Home Office, particularly in terms of how we support asylum seekers who’ve been placed in contingency hotels in Wales. They’ve arrived either directly, or they will be arriving, from the Manston processing centre or another contingency hotel in London. They're not in receipt of any formal support under the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999. They are provided with meals. Eight pounds a week they are provided with in support for basic supplies, and that payment has been continued, but not everyone is provided with that funding. The British Red Cross, the Welsh Refugee Council—we support both those organisations, we fund them—have been helping them.

This is where your response and questions to me are so important in terms of the responsibility that we have. We are taking those responsibilities with our local authorities to ensure that we can do our best in terms of these circumstances. But unless the Home Office work constructively on a multi-agency basis with our local authorities, with the health boards, with the police as well, the third sector—they're all there waiting, wanting to engage in order to play their part—then we will have this rise of tension and lack of community cohesion.

I very much support Wales as a nation of sanctuary, and I'm pleased to say that it has been embraced by Newport City Council, local schools and local communities. Newport is diverse and home to a significant number of asylum seekers and refugees. I'm sure, Minister, you would agree with me that we should be grateful to those hosting people fleeing conflict and persecution, for example the family in Langstone in my constituency who are providing refuge to a young Ukrainian woman and are very positive about the experience. As well as very much cherishing their friendship with her, the family are very positive about the experience for their own daughters—as they say, giving them greater appreciation of all they have, improving their social skills, having learnt to share their home with another person outside of their immediate family, teaching them empathy and compassion, and how even a small act of kindness can have a significant impact. They are so pleased they were able to help this young Ukrainian woman, and will always consider her as part of their family.

Diolch yn fawr, John Griffiths. I don't really have to respond more than to say that your statement has been very powerful. I do congratulate Newport for being a city of sanctuary, and I look forward to coming and visiting a school in Maindee next week.

On Friday evening, I will be presenting awards to the local refugee group and the winners there of a poetry and literature competition. I'd like to praise and commend Powys County Council, as well as all of the other councils across Wales, who've welcomed so many refugees and have, actually, made such an effort to include them. The theme around compassion is so important this year, isn't it?

I just want to touch on age-disputed young people. This is a group that people are really anxious about and really don't cover. I worked with them for over 6 years. And I just really want to highlight how important it is for us to remember that the current Illegal Migration Bill actually says that those age-disputed young people could be locked up, which includes many victims of trafficking. Robert Jenrick, in November 2022, said 20 per cent of adults who arrived in the UK wanted to claim that they were children, and yet Home Office data last month actually showed that it was only 1 per cent—totally wrong figures, which actually joins in with the whole debate and attacks on our refugees and our asylum seekers. I hope you'll join with me, Minister, in saying how important it is that all of us have the facts correct and at our fingertips and that we support those young people, particularly age-disputed young people. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Diolch yn fawr, Jane Dodds. I think all parts of Powys, but Powys council—. I'm very aware of the Hay, Brecon and Talgarth sanctuary for refugees, in terms of recognising that great warmth, support and response that we see in every part of Wales in terms of those awards that you will be giving next week.

Next week, we will have an LCM debate on the Illegal Migration Bill. You've already seen my statement. We can't support a Bill that the UN Refugee Agency has described as amounting to an asylum ban, which would breach the refugee convention. Indeed, I do draw Members' attention to the Houses of Parliament Joint Committee on Human Rights, which published their report last week. They've concluded

'that various provisions of the Bill are not compatible with the Convention or with numerous other binding legal obligations on the UK.'

Now, this is a cross-party group, across Westminster Parliament and the House of Lords, with Conservative members, with an SNP chair, and with Labour, Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru engaged. What's really important about my LCM, and our officials are already preparing for that, is we don't support any diminution of the lead role, professional role, for our social workers in assessing what's in the best interest of children. We've asked for information about training immigration officers in terms of assessing age in line with Welsh social services and, most importantly, the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. There's never been a response, and we're very concerned about the fact that this could diminish our existing Welsh national duties, because we look after and treat all unaccompanied asylum-seeking children as looked-after children. It's in line with our Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014, as well.

So, that's something that we will obviously be debating next week, and I know that this is something where we feel that the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child is being blighted by this as well as, obviously, in terms of the flouting of the UN Refugee Agency.

Language is really important here. We need to talk about people, not stats, so when we talk about people who are seeking asylum, they are often referred to as 'illegal migrants' and that's where we need to draw the separation. So, when the Tories are bringing through an illegal immigration Bill, they're doing just that, they're deliberately putting that wedge there. They're stoking tensions and creating a hostile environment, scapegoating traumatised people. That deflects then from their own failures in this space, which is, actually, to produce some safe passage, to deal with the huge backlog of asylum claims.

I know, Minister, that you're across the situation in Llanelli, and that you've met with the leader of Carmarthenshire council yesterday about the Home Office plans to place 207 vulnerable people into 77 rooms at Stradey Park Hotel, and they haven't got the proper support. So, what's happened is staff are worried about their jobs, local businesses are worried about economic knock-on effects, and residents about the lack of funding. They are legitimate concerns that can be addressed with proper communication. What is not legitimate is—

Joyce, you need to ask a question now, please.

I will do—intimidation by far-right thugs spreading misinformation and hate. We need compassion. So, can I ask you, Minister—I know you've been in touch with the UK Government over this—have you had any more information from the UK Government, or are we all supposed to just wait until they deign to give us a response?

Diolch yn fawr, Joyce Watson. Thank you very much for those key points, and we will be debating the Illegal Migration Bill. I've made quite clear our opposition to the Illegal Migration Bill. Not only does it go against the UN Refugee Agency in terms of the human rights convention, it's not compliant with it—even the Home Secretary recognised she can't say that the Bill's compliant with the human rights convention—but also, it's unworkable. It will actually continue to leave many people in limbo, it'll undermine other Home Office priorities to prevent illegal working or modern slavery within the UK.

Now, I have laid out in my statement, again, of 31 March the safe and legal routes way in which we can address—and the way in which the UK Government should be addressing—and I think it's also important for us to remember that it has been done before. The Home Office should reconsider its withdrawal from the Dubs scheme, for example. You all remember the Dubs scheme. That was a safe route prior to the UK leaving the EU, and the UK Government could reintroduce a scheme like the Dubs scheme, which is really important in terms of the questions that are being asked about vulnerable unaccompanied children. They could come to the UK safely. We've actually got a Ukraine eligible minors scheme that provides a model. That was developed by the UK Government, so they've got a model now that they could use for a more effective version of the Dubs scheme. But the number of decisions by the Home Office—in 2021, of the 50,000-plus applications, only 1,400-plus initial decisions were made. So, it's no surprise that there's a lack of available dispersal, accommodation and bed spaces available. And yet, they come up with schemes such as the scheme in terms of the so-called Rwanda scheme, which is just immoral, I think, as the Archbishop of Canterbury has described it, who's actually leading the amendments in the House of Lords against the Illegal Migration Bill. That's the sort of moral horror that has been described about the Illegal Migration Bill.

But I will say that I'm doing everything I can to work with the authorities who are engaged in those particular circumstances that you and other Members have revealed today, because of the failure of the UK Government to deal with this appropriately and responsibly.

Minister, diolch for your statement today, and I echo the comments of my colleague Sioned Williams. I'd like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to someone who you know very well and I know very well, and I speak, of course, of our friend, the Reverend Aled Edwards. He has recently retired from his role at Cytûn and as a board member and previous chair of Displaced People in Action, and I was privileged enough to be able to work alongside him in both those roles.

His commitment, compassion and dedication to the plight of refugees and asylum seekers over the decades has been immeasurable. One of the key achievements of his time at DPIA was the development of the refugee doctor scheme, and you helped develop that scheme. The success of the project has been to aid over 200 refugee doctors from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan into work within our NHS.

I'm sure that you'd want to say a heartfelt 'diolch' to Aled for his hard work, and I wonder if a fitting tribute to that hard work and the hard work of the DPIA would be to develop the award scheme to encompass other professional refugees and asylum seekers. Since the last time I talked to you about this topic, could you update us on any progress there has been to develop the scheme in the areas of dentistry, midwifery and in nursing? Diolch yn fawr.

Diolch yn fawr, Peredur. Can I join you in praise of Aled Edwards? The fantastic Aled Edwards, who, when I was the first health Minister, he came to me and said, 'Can we do something—?' This was nearly 25 years ago: 'Can we do something in terms of refugee doctors?' and he managed to develop a scheme involving higher education, language, the British Medical Association, the General Medical Council—all involved. So, all over Wales in the health service, there are refugee doctors who've come through that award scheme.

He was such a strong supporter of devolution. He wanted to make it work and use what powers we had, but through Displaced People in Action, he has enabled professionals. And, of course, this is very relevant to our Syrian, Afghan and Ukrainian guests, and the other professions. So, I'll come back to you with an update on that scheme.

I thank the Minister.

Item 7 this afternoon is the LCM on the Protection from Sex-based Harassment in Public Bill, and I call on the Minister for Social Justice, Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm grateful for the work of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and the Equality and Social Justice Committee on this matter and for the reports that they've published. I'm pleased that majorities on both committees broadly agreed with the position that the Government set out in its legislative consent memorandum. And I also note, and have already responded, to the recommendations of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee.

Deputy Llywydd, we know that catcalling, aggressively blocking someone's path, intimidating them and other sex-based harassment in public is a significant problem that impacts very badly on the physical and mental health of many people in Wales. It can negatively impact a person's well-being and the fear of such harassment can lead to adverse impacts on the well-being of a wider group of people. As women and girls are disproportionately the victims of this form of harassment, this can further entrench issues of inequality.

In May 2022, the Office for National Statistics found that 82 per cent of women felt unsafe walking alone after dark in a park or other open space. One in two women aged between 16 and 34 experienced at least one form of harassment in the previous 12 months, with 38 per cent of women aged between 16 and 34 having experienced catcalls, whistles, unwanted sexual comments, jokes, and 25 per cent having felt that they were being followed. People who reported feeling unsafe during the day and after dark had altered their behaviours as a result. To change behaviours, we know that we must confront those committing the abuse; we must support survivors; we must change the culture of misogyny and harassment that feeds the abuse. So, my officials did explore very carefully the option of the Welsh Government bringing forward its own Bill, but it became clear that this would not have been a timely option in this case. And our principles provide that there are circumstances in which it may be sensible and advantageous to seek provision for Wales, which would be within the Senedd’s legislative competence within UK parliamentary Bills with the consent of the Senedd of course.

This is a single-use Bill, in line with our programme for government and our violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy. And therefore, our recommendation to consent to this Bill is entirely consistent with those principles in order to ensure that a serious issue is addressed as timely as possible. Therefore, it is right for Wales to be included in this legislation so that people in Wales are not left in a position where they could be considered less safe from the risks of street and public sex-based harassment. However, I also agree with the concerns that have been raised around the commencement of this Bill not being given to Welsh Ministers by the UK Government. The timing of the engagement by UK Government on this Bill was unacceptable, which made attempts to secure commencement powers in Wales extremely difficult, worsened by the limited opportunity to amend the legislation owing to parliamentary processes around private Members’ Bills.

Due to the importance of the issue and not wanting women and girls in Wales to be less safe than in England, we eventually agreed to a memorandum of understanding around commencement of the relevant provisions. This has now been finalised and published. However, Members can rest assured that I also made our position clear and affirmed that this was not to be regarded as a precedent for future Bills. Aside from this issue, the LCM committee reports make clear why this Senedd should support the Protection from Sex-based Harassment in Public Bill. At its core, the Bill will help ensure the safety of women and girls in Wales, which is a priority for the Welsh Government. I therefore call upon Members of the Senedd to give their consent to this motion. Diolch.

The Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Thank you, Llywydd. My committee reported on the legislative consent memorandum on the Protection from Sex-based Harassment in Public Bill last week. We asked the Minister to clarify a number of issues before this afternoon’s debate and I thank the Minister for her response yesterday afternoon.

Llywydd, our report focuses on three issues: the Welsh Government’s approach to legislating; the provisions in the Bill that we consider require the Senedd’s consent; and the memorandum of understanding that the Welsh Government has signed with the UK Government on the exercise of the commencement power.

Firstly, the Welsh Government’s own programme for government makes a commitment to,

'Strengthen the Violence against Women, Domestic Abuse and Sexual Violence Strategy to include a focus on violence against women in the street and workplace as well as the home.'

That's in the Welsh Government's own programme for government. So, on that basis, we remain unclear as a committee as to why the Welsh Government has not brought forward its own legislation on this matter, given this clear commitment. Let me expand a little bit.

The Welsh Government is aware of our view that, where new legislative opportunities are identified by both the Welsh Government and the UK Government, there is a different way forward: our respective Parliaments could legislate, but in parallel and in co-ordination. So, recommendation 1 in our report asked the Minister to clarify why the Welsh Government has not brought forward its own Bill to create this new offence. This doesn't go to the matter of the policy of the Bill, but it's the process of creating the Bill. The Minister told us that the officials explored the option of the Welsh Government bringing forward its own Bill, but, as she has just explained, that it would not have been a timely option and it would have had detrimental impacts on the delivery of other Bills. So, we thank the Minister for that further response.

Regarding which provisions in the Bill require the Senedd's consent, we agree that the clauses identified in the memorandum require the consent of the Senedd. However, we believe the Senedd's consent should be sought for the whole of clause 4 of the Bill, and not just two subsections within it.

Now, finally, as the Minister has said, the Welsh Government has entered into a memorandum of understanding with the UK Government on the exercise of the commencement power in the Bill. It was signed on 1 June and sent to us on 2 June. Given that the Welsh Government has entered into an agreement with the UK Government on a Bill that is the subject of the legislative consent process, we do welcome the Minister's commitment to provide the Senedd with a copy of that agreement before Members of the Senedd are asked to make a decision on whether to grant legislative consent.

In recommendation No. 2, we asked the Minister to confirm if the Welsh Government sought a power on the face of the Bill for the Welsh Ministers to commence clauses 1 and 3 of the Bill as they apply in Wales before agreeing to enter into an MOU with the UK Government, and the Minister—we're grateful—has confirmed to us that she did indeed write to the UK Government on three occasions to strongly advocate for a power on the face of the Bill for Welsh Ministers—our Welsh Ministers—to commence the relevant provisions here in Wales, but the request was refused, which is disappointing.

The Chair of the Equality and Social Justice Committee, Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you. We considered this proposal on 15 May, and we think that the legislation is a practical and efficient opportunity to ensure equal protection from sex-based harassment in public in Wales, given that there is no comparable Senedd Bill planned in the short or medium term, and therefore we felt it was important to support this, as this is a significant issue. It's something that's come up when we've investigated the specific needs of migrant women, who may be subject to exploitation and harassment, and indeed be in a controlling relationship. We have a continuing interest in how we prevent gender-based violence, and we would be keen to know how the new criminal offence will support our non-legislative efforts to deal with sexual harassment in public places, which is a commitment in the Welsh Government's programme for government.

So, one of our Members expressed concern about the principle of a UK Government Bill enacting such legislation, rather than it being generated in Wales, but I think that most of us were strongly of the view that we need to seize the moment for what is a useful Bill to provide protection to people who may otherwise be harassed in public.

I'd like to thank the Minister for bringing forward this legislative consent memorandum today. As Welsh Conservatives, we support this LCM because we need to do as much as we can to ensure that we protect people from sex-based harassment in public. I and my group support any measures to strengthen the law in this area to ensure that those perpetrators are brought to justice. There is no place in society for any violence against women or anybody in our place of work, or in public, or anywhere in this country.

We recognise that this is a key area of work for the Welsh Government, as we know that it is a programme for government commitment for you. However, we are disappointed that this hasn’t come forward as Welsh Government legislation, because we think it’s very important here that laws are made in the Senedd for Welsh people, and this is a devolved area. We think on these benches that, if we had brought this forward as a Welsh Government Bill, it would have given far more opportunity for those organisations to feed into this, and for Senedd Members here to scrutinise this properly. I do hear your point, Minister, where you said about time and risk to other Bills, but I don’t really accept that, because the Welsh Government have brought forward other Bills through this Senedd on the expedited process, which could have speeded this up to make sure that we did this in parallel with the UK Government.

So, we do support this in principle, but I’d actually like to know what exactly the Welsh Government is going to do in the future to bring forward Welsh legislation in this area, because I think that there is wide-ranging support for a Bill like this, developed in the Senedd, to eradicate sex-based harassment here in Wales, and I think that we should have a Bill on this statute book, made here in the Senedd.

Violence against women is endemic in England and Wales and worldwide. It's worth repeating the shameful, frightening figures at every opportunity, namely that one in three of all women will experience gender-based violence, and 71 per cent of women in the UK have experienced harassment in public, which rises to 86 per cent among women aged between 18 and 24 years of age—86 per cent. Twenty-nine women sit in this Chamber. That means that, statistically speaking, 20 of us have experienced harassment, or will experience harassment, in a public place, based on our gender.

In their response to the consultation on the Bill, Welsh Women’s Aid drew attention to the huge increase in calls related to harassment and stalking to the Live Fear Free helpline—an increase of 229 per cent between January 2021 and June 2022. The scale of the problem is clear, too, in the findings of their 'No Grey Area' report, which stated that four out of five women in Wales have experienced sexual harassment at work, the majority of them having experienced multiple instances of sexual harassment by multiple perpetrators.

In the meeting that I chaired today of the cross-party group on violence against women and children, we heard again about the scale of the problem of sexual harassment in the workplace and on the way to and from work. The term ‘epidemic’ was used to describe the situation. So, it's a huge, major issue, and we must do more to tackle it in Wales. But this legislation is not likely to do this effectively. The most eminent experts in the sector focused on preventing gender-based violence are agreed on this. The justice system is broken to such an extent, according to the End Violence Against Women Coalition, that it will be unable to implement any new legislation. Plan International and Our Streets Now underline that this Bill does not tackle and close the loopholes in the law in terms of sexual harassment in public, and, in omitting unwelcome sexual behaviour from this piece of legislation, there is a danger that other kinds of sexual harassment in public connected to the crime will also be omitted.

Welsh Women’s Aid also highlight that tackling gender-based violence, rather than the element of sex exclusively, should be the focus here, emphasising that sexual harassment in public doesn’t solely happen because of someone’s sex. And this is an important point. Although women suffer disproportionate levels of sexual harassment in public, sexual harassment happens to people as a means of striking fear into them and as a statement of power and control, and that can be for reasons or factors that are in addition to or other than their sex. For example, the Trades Union Congress undertook the first major survey of sexual harassment among LGBT+ people in the workplace, and found that 68 per cent of LGBT+ people had experienced sexual harassment at work. Welsh Women’s Aid therefore believe that these cases would be unlikely to be encompassed by this legislative framework, and Plaid Cymru supports their view that we must tackle all kinds of sexual violence fairly and on the basis of equality, and that legislation should be consistent across all kinds of sexual violence. We also share concern that there is no recognition in the Bill of the harassment faced by survivors of sexual exploitation and harm via the sex industry—violence that often occurs in public places such as cars, public parks and back streets.

The Minister for Social Justice to reply. Jane Hutt.

Diolch yn fawr i chi i gyd—thank you to you all for raising such important points in this debate. And in fact, isn't it important that we've got the opportunity to debate this LCM? It's again highlighted the scale of the problem, and it is essential that the level of public harassment and abuse experienced by women and girls is understood, and the harm caused properly recognised. I gave you all the statistics; we've heard again the impact of this on the lives of girls and women. And also, just to reassure Members, our violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence strategy is now extended to looking at violence and sexual harassment in the workplace. We have a work stream that is led by Shavanah Taj, alongside someone from the police authority. We also have a work stream on tackling violence in public places, as well as a work stream working with survivors.

So, many of the points have been raised in terms of what we're continuing to do to work with our specialist services to raise awareness of the inequality and safety issues faced by women and girls, to end all forms of violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence for all the people of Wales, working with our partners. But we do see that this legislative opportunity could provide just one further tool in the fight to change behaviour and empower survivors, again, to ensure that we improve practice and instil confidence in survivors to report incidents of abuse and violence when they occur, to hold those who abuse to account.

We'll take on board all of the points that have been raised by the Equality and Social Justice Committee. They will be fed into our revised strategy and the work streams. And also, I have accepted all the recommendations from the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. And I think it was important that I did accept all of those recommendations, and I know that there are many questions that we then need to take forward in terms of the points that have been raised. And I will share a copy of the memorandum of understanding, and recognise that, as I said, this is in no way giving any kind of precedent to handling this in terms of the way forward.

We did explore the option of bringing forward our own Bill, but it wasn't possible for the reasons that I've mentioned. And it goes back to the fact that we do need to provide the same protection in Wales as would be offered to women in England. That's the point. That is why we've made this decision, because we do not want women and girls to be left out in terms of this option, in terms of protection. But I do take into account the points that are being made about learning from our specialist providers and our cross-party group today, of course, in terms of understanding these issues. But I want to ensure that the same protection is offered, and that's why I ask Members to support this LCM and not opt out of this legislative opportunity.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There is an objection. We will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.

We move now to item 8, the motion to vary the order of consideration for Report Stage amendments to the Agriculture (Wales) Bill. I call on the Minister for rural affairs to move the motion—Lesley Griffiths.

Formally.

The motion is formally moved. I have no speakers to the item. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No objections. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Which brings us to voting time. There is a single vote this afternoon, and unless three Members wish for the bell to be rung, we will move immediately to that vote. And that vote is on the legislative consent motion on the Protection from Sex-based Harassment in Public Bill, and I call for a vote on the motion, tabled in the name of Jane Hutt. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 41, no abstentions, 11 against, and therefore the motion is agreed.

That concludes voting for today and concludes our business. Thank you, all, very much.