Plenary

Item 2 this afternoon is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd, Jane Hutt.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. There are two changes to today's Plenary agenda. The Stage 1 debate on the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill has been postponed until 16 July. Instead, the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs will make a statement on Wales's world-class recycling. Additionally, the Conservative debates tomorrow have been reordered, and the debate on women's health has been postponed. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available electronically.

Trefnydd, can we have an update on the blue badge scheme across Wales? We know that new guidance has been issued to local authorities, but this doesn't seem to be resolving the many problems that people in my constituency are having when reapplying for their blue badges. Why should it be that someone with a deteriorating condition, who qualified for a blue badge previously, is having to continually, every few years, go back to request one? That seems to me like unnecessary bureaucracy. If people have got a deteriorating condition, they should qualify for life. I do think that there needs to be further work on this, and I would welcome a statement on the blue badge scheme, to make sure that we're not wasting officers' time in local authorities, and we're not wasting the time of our residents unnecessarily, with having to do applications that ought not to be happening.

Secondly, can I call for an update from the Minister with responsibility for flood defences in Wales on flood risk management? One of the challenges I have in my own constituency is that, in the Sandy Cove area in Kinmel Bay, it's a place that has been hit by flooding on a number of occasions in recent years. Now, the Welsh Government, rightly, is investing in the sea defences in the Kinmel Bay area in the coming year, with work that is expected to start in September of this year. But, unfortunately, whilst that will help to protect the residents on Sandy Cove from flooding episodes, it will not resolve the significant drainage problems that there are on the Sandy Cove estate, as a result of the highways and roads on that estate being unadopted. So, I would like to see the sea defence and flood works, which are taking place in Kinmel Bay, extended to cover the drainage on that estate, and I think it would be useful to have a written statement on this matter, to see whether there's any further action that the Welsh Government can take in order to help the residents in Kinmel Bay there. Thank you.

Diolch yn fawr, Darren Millar. On your blue badge scheme, yes, I will raise this with the Cabinet Secretary. Obviously, this is something that is developed in partnership with our colleagues in local government. It is a vital scheme to enable accessibility and independence for disabled people, and people with impairments and conditions that qualify them for the blue badge. And, of course, the review system is important, as you would acknowledge, but I will raise this and feed back to you on the outcome of that discussion.

I'm very pleased that the Cabinet Secretary is here in the Chamber when you raise the issue about flood risk management, and particularly focusing on sea defences and the work that we are, as a Welsh Government, investing in, not just in Kinmel Bay, but across the whole of Wales. I think we should be very proud of the investment we make in flood risk management. This affects all our constituencies.

I have to say, also, that we actually benefited from European funding in relation to the work that we've done, and indeed in terms of coastal erosion, and the work that's been done with our coastal path in terms of sea defences, and indeed other flood risk defences that we have invested in. Again, our partnership with local government, who are the authorities who are responsible for delivering the projects, with our funding support, is key. So, this is another partnership that I believe is very robust in Wales, but, as I said, the Cabinet Secretary has heard the point about your local question.

I'd like to place on record my disappointment that we won't have an opportunity today to discuss the general principles of the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill. I was one of the members of the Business Committee who agreed to a truncated timetable in terms of scrutiny by committees, and, as a member of the Senedd's Reform Bill Committee that undertook that scrutiny, I'd like to express my discontent that the timetable has changed, because the committees could have had the usual time to scrutinise the Bill. We accept that there's a UK general election at the moment, but that is beneficial in this regard, that it has happened more swiftly, because it means that you can have these discussions. So, can I ask you to continue with the ambition to introduce it in time for 2026, and to demand the right to do so from the next UK Government?

Secondly, I'm sure you're aware, as a constituency Member of the Senedd for the area, of the ongoing sewage spills impacting the river Ogmore and Ogmore-by-Sea beach. The beach has been classified as 'abnormal' by Natural Resources Wales, and is one of the two worst beaches in Wales for water quality, with people being advised not to swim, despite it being a designated bathing area in 2023. However, some people are still not aware of the risk and continue to enter the water. So, can I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs on this issue, updating the Senedd on the situation, and the steps being taken to rectify the situation, and warn people of the dangers?

Thank you very much, Heledd Fychan, for your very important question. And thank you also for your interest in this matter.

We were very grateful for the work that was undertaken at speed, at pace, by the Reform Bill Committee, and indeed the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, and indeed the Finance Committee, in relation to the Senedd Cymru (Electoral Candidate Lists) Bill. I'm fortunate, of course, to be the Member in charge of that Bill, and Members will be aware that I have circulated a letter that I wrote to the Chairs of all of those committees at the end of last week, to say that we need to give due consideration to the 47 recommendations that we received from those committees—we received the reports on 7 June—and that we need to respond as fully and appropriately as possible ahead of the Stage 1 debate. So, I did take the decision, on behalf of the Welsh Government, to delay the Stage 1 debate on the general principles of the Bill until 16 July 2024. I hope my letter, which has now been circulated to all Members, clarifies the position as far as this is concerned.

But I also would say that it's very important that we do look fully at those reports, because what is so good about the reports, particularly, I have to say, the Reform Bill Committee report—and I appreciate that the Dirprwy Lywydd is the Chair of that Reform Bill Committee, the pwyllgor—is that it's really great to see that the majority of Members on that committee endorse the general principles of this Bill. We were waiting to hear, as a result of the evidence that was given, and also the fact that the Reform Bill Committee acknowledged the strength of the academic and international evidence that was given to that committee. And I will take this opportunity, Heledd Fychan and Dirprwy Lywydd, to say how delighted I was by the evidence given by Joyce Watson and the women's caucus, which is a cross-party caucus in this Senedd, backing this Bill. I think that gives you an indication of my commitment in terms of taking this Bill forward.

Your second point and question is also very important, in relation to the situation we find ourselves in in Ogmore. This abuts more than one constituency, more than one region, as you acknowledge, Heledd Fychan—myself and indeed Sarah Murphy, from Bridgend. Obviously, high bathing water quality is a priority for the Welsh Government. Outdoor swimming, water-based recreational activities are particularly popular in Ogmore-by-Sea, in my constituency. I was disappointed with the 'poor' classification given to Ogmore in 2023, but it is work being undertaken with Natural Resources Wales and Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water, as they continue to investigate the catchment, to identify and deliver the necessary water-quality improvements.

So, I think the good news is that, as of midnight on 17 June, last night, NRW have now lifted their abnormal situation notification, which was in place at Ogmore. The incident and wider catchment investigations are still under way, so we can't comment any further. But I am grateful to the Cabinet Secretary who has, I can say, agreed to meet with myself and Sarah Murphy, and I'm sure will want to also engage with other Senedd Members with an interest.

Across Aberconwy, residents and visitors are being completely deprived of mobile signal. We have masts, but they are simply overwhelmed. An engineer recently informed me that the mast by Venue Cymru is already at 140 per cent capacity. But just look, Minister—Cabinet Secretary—at the headlines over the weekend:

'Mobile networks swamped by tourists causing "embarrassing" problems for North Wales'

and

'Tourism surge Wales strains mobile networks hitting local businesses'.

The consequences of overloading these masts are serious: mobile payment machines are failing, leaving businesses unable to take payments; residents and visitors cannot get hold of loved ones. Mobile service providers are informing residents and businesses that they now need to wait until winter to have a reliable service restored. It simply isn't good enough.

Llandudno, Aberconwy, and, I guess, all our constituencies, need twenty-first century technology. While mobile coverage continues to improve across the country, 86 UK-funded 4G masts are currently being rolled out in Wales. But will you make a statement now on how you believe, or ask the Cabinet Secretary what actions they are taking to speed up this mobile phone signal and connections? Diolch.

Diolch yn fawr, Janet Finch-Saunders. Well, what's interesting, of course, is this is a question that I would have thought you would have put to your colleagues in the UK Government, in terms of the powers and responsibilities. [Interruption.] It's not devolved.

It doesn't matter. [Laughter.] You do have some—. You have—. You have—.

I will be very respectful, actually—

To think you're not interested—

Janet, I don't want a conversation going on. You've asked the question. Listen to the answer.

Can I just be very respectful, Janet, of your point, because I am sure this is shared by many across this Chamber? But we just do need to clarify, for the benefit of the record and for those who are involved in this business statement—as I respond to the business statement—that this is not devolved. But we have, as a Welsh Government, continuously invested in this, because we absolutely agree, Janet Finch-Saunders, that this is part of our infrastructure, isn't it? It's part of our infrastructure not just for tourism, but for education, for the economy, for energy, for all aspects of life. So, I think, obviously, in our general election period that we're in, this is a call, obviously, to the current Conservative Government—the failure of 14 years—

Oh, here we go.

—of lack of investment. But also, I have to say, I recall in having, particularly in relation to social justice and inclusion, and of course Lesley Griffiths will be very familiar and, indeed, Rebecca Evans, when you've had responsibility as well for digital inclusion, that this is something where we, actually, also did invest a lot of European funding in this, and we've worked hard and had our digital strategy, which, of course, is crucial, because—. We've mentioned tourism, we've mentioned education, but also let's mention health, access to health and social care as well.

As chair of the cross-party group on women, I am extremely disappointed that there won't be a Stage 1 debate on the candidates Bill this afternoon, as intended, and that it's been pushed back a month to 16 July. This will mean, of course, that Stage 2 won't be able to start tomorrow and that the whole timetable for the Bill is being pushed back. What will running the clock down mean? Well, there's a risk that it'll mean that we will have a larger Senedd, elected in a fairer way, but there'll be a real risk that a lack of equality and a lack of diversity will continue as an unacceptable feature of the Welsh Parliament. We will have incomplete reform if the candidates Bill, which is an integral part of the jigsaw, is not implemented.

The letter that you've referred to already, which has been sent to Members of the Senedd, does not justify the rationale for delaying this afternoon's vote. The rationale doesn't hold water. Reports from Senedd committees recommend progressing to Stages 2 and 3 and call on you to have discussions with the new Labour Government in Westminster before Stage 4, because that Labour Government could make an Order in Council to give power to the Senedd to pass the Bill, putting the implementation of the proposals contained within it beyond any doubt.

I have to ask whether this the latest example of this new 'partnership' in action. It's not two Labour Governments working hand in hand for Wales, but rather a weak Welsh Labour Government in Wales just taking their instructions meekly from London.

Siân, can you draw to a close?

The unnecessary delay is a major step backwards. I am drawing to a close. Could you please ensure that the amended timetable does allow for the full package of reforms to be implemented and that there should be no rowing back on the pledge made in your programme for government? And I do quote page 7 in your programme for government:

'introduce gender quotas in law.'

Thank you very much, Siân Gwenllian. Thank you for your comments and questions.

Clearly, one of the most disappointing points when we introduced this Bill was the fact that the Llywydd ruled that this was not in compliance. This is one of the crucial things about how we take forward a Bill where there are issues about that grey area, which can be tested and, of course, was contested, It was looked at in terms of scrutiny at Stage 1 in terms of legal competence. So, it was disappointing that we set off on that step—that we did not get that backing from the Llywydd in terms of acknowledging that this Bill could have recognised the legal competence for us here in the Senedd.

So, I was really grateful to both of the committees who actually addressed these issues, and particularly the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, who were looking at the issue particularly of compliance and competence. I think one of the important things about this is that both committees have come up with a range of recommendations. Particularly as you referred to the letter that I've circulated, they've asked us to engage with the UK Government after the UK general election. We had no idea we would have a general election when we were going through Stage 1.

Recommendations in both reports relate to the potential risk to the 2026 Senedd ordinary election associated with the implementation of the legislation in time for that election. For us, I think protecting that 2026 Senedd ordinary election is absolutely of key importance. Also, I think, as to the concerns about the risk not just in terms of getting everything in time for the 2026 election, many stakeholders came back and said that we should not take that risk in terms of the implementation of the wider reform. So, we had to take those concerns seriously. The response has been entirely—. I realise I'm responding as the Member in charge, Dirprwy Lywydd, here today. We had to take that seriously in terms of the recommendations that came from the reports and also from the evidence.

So, my commitment is wholly towards getting this electoral candidates list Bill on the statute book, and sometimes we have to look at that in terms of timing. I want to get it on the statute book because, as the Reform Bill Committee said, the Bill is a step towards delivering fully diverse representation in the Senedd. And I think we are also discussing—and we'll have the opportunity when we look at the Elections and Elected Bodies (Wales) Bill, which is being taken forward by the Counsel General—what we can do in terms of voluntary guidance for 2026 if we cannot get it through in time for the 2026 election. I have referred to this in my letter, in terms of that voluntary guidance, where we can ask parties if they will voluntarily implement a gender quotas route, which has been proven in 130 countries across the world as being an important way to deliver on that diversity that we call for. We want to remove potential barriers to more women's participation in politics in Wales.

Back to the real world, I'd like to call for a statement again from the Cabinet Secretary for local government on the waste collection chaos in Denbighshire, which is a result of the Welsh Government-funded scheme. We are three weeks into the Trolibocs bin system roll-out and my inbox is full of constituents' e-mails who are in dismay about the chaos that has been caused by Denbighshire County Council's inability to introduce the new bin system and ensure that all collections are made. As a result, countless people are contacting me about repeat missed collections, and this is now becoming a serious potential risk to public health, with waste piling up outside, pavements and highways becoming a magnet for seagulls and rodents, a bit like something back in the late 1970s. We shouldn't have to put up with this, especially when the new bins are likely to discourage recycling, contrary to their purported goals. The Trolibocs system was introduced by Denbighshire council, despite public opposition, due to a handsome investment by the Welsh Government. So could the Welsh Government outline whether they will reassess the scheme in light of the myriad issues it has brought to people's doors, and have a discussion with Denbighshire County Council about the best way to move forward, with the scheme's abandonment still left on the table? Thank you.

Can I just say that I'm utterly disgusted by what Gareth Davies said, by saying 'back to the real world.' Why do we need a gender quotas Bill? Because we need better representation of women, and I have to say, let's look over there, where we certainly need this gender quotas Bill. I think it's shocking that we have that disregard of a piece of legislation that was taken through by three committees.

I will answer your question. You've raised this question every week. Why can't Denbighshire County Council be given the opportunity to implement this kerbside recycling collection without you coming back week after week undermining them, undermining your authority? Actually, neighbouring authorities like Conwy are delivering on kerbside recycling collection. Of course there are teething problems, we know that, but the Cabinet Secretary, who's sitting here, who's going to be proudly talking about the fact that Wales is the second most successful country in the world shortly, will be talking about this further.

Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, can I just say—

Trefnydd.

—we've got expert advisers, WRAP Cymru, and they're working with Denbighshire?

Trefnydd, one second please. I appreciate it. The Member who asked the question should not keep commenting from a sedentary position. Let the Member responding have a chance to respond, please.

Diolch yn fawr. The final point was that WRAP Cymru are their expert advisers, and they're working with Denbighshire to resolve immediate issues. I look forward to not having this question, although I'm sure it may come back next week, in the business statement.

And finally, Natasha Asghar.

Thank you so much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Cabinet Secretary, please may I ask for a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care about the provision of NHS dentistry in south-east Wales? I know that it's a topic that many of us have touched upon from different parties, but I have actually been contacted by a number of constituents following a decision taken by Beaufort Park Dental Surgery in Chepstow to stop providing NHS services from the end of August this year. Cabinet Secretary, this decision has understandably caused a great deal of concern, with patients now frantically searching for a new NHS dentist, which we all know are in scarce supply.

An investigation carried out by the British Dental Association found that 93 per cent of dental practices are not taking on new NHS adult patients, which is the worst rate in the UK, and those fortunate enough to be on an NHS dentist's books could be facing a wait of up to 26 weeks before actually getting an appointment. Now, one constituent has actually gone ahead and told me that he has heard absolutely nothing from Aneurin Bevan University Health Board following Beaufort Park's decision, with others concerned about the impact this will have on those who cannot actually afford private treatment. This latest announcement actually follows revelations that some residents in Blaenau Gwent are facing years on waiting lists to see an NHS dentist or are being forced to drive hundreds of miles to receive treatment across the border. I'm sure you'll agree, Cabinet Secretary, that this is completely unacceptable, and a statement from the Cabinet Secretary for health about the current situation, outlining where my constituents can find NHS dental treatment, would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Clearly, the investment that we're making in dentistry and, indeed, the updated contract with our dental profession in Wales is helping us deliver for dentistry. Indeed, as the Member says, it's so important in terms of access to NHS dentistry. And, of course, this is very much dependent on the decisions of those dentists themselves in terms of their contract position. But, certainly, I will be raising this with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, and the particular challenge that you raise at a local level today.

I thank the Trefnydd.

Item 3 is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Culture and Social Justice on Refugee Week: our home. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Lesley Griffiths.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. This week marks Refugee Week, a celebration of the contributions sanctuary seekers make to Wales. Refugee Week brings together people from all backgrounds to create better understanding within our communities, and promotes integration and equality for all. The theme for this year’s Refugee Week celebration is 'our home'. Everyone has their own sense of what home means. It may be the place where you grew up or the place where you gather with your family. For most sanctuary seekers arriving in Wales, they have been denied these experiences of home, often in very cruel and painful ways. Sanctuary seekers are not just geographically displaced; most will have lost their families, possessions, careers and connections.

Home should also be the place where you feel safe and valued, and this is what we seek to ensure in a nation of sanctuary. Despite the loss sanctuary seekers have experienced, we should reflect on the assets they have—their talents, experience, resilience and culture. We seek to harness those assets to build a shared future and home. Wales has shown time and again over the last century and more that it is a country that welcomes people from across the world. This has been demonstrated so powerfully in the last two years by Welsh households directly sponsoring 4,300 Ukrainians to come to the UK. A further 800 Ukrainians have visas and could also travel to Welsh host sponsors. We owe a debt of gratitude to all Homes for Ukraine hosts who have embodied the role of ambassadors for the nation of sanctuary vision on behalf of the Welsh Government. Thank you for everything you have done and continue to do in providing homes and a warm Welsh welcome.

We also support and fund hosting arrangements for a wider group of asylum seekers through our partners, Housing Justice Cymru. We want to harness the enthusiasm and experiences of Homes for Ukraine hosts and create a sustainable opportunity for sanctuary seekers to be accommodated, regardless of where they come from.

In addition to the Homes for Ukraine individual sponsor route, we've operated a Welsh Government supersponsor route since March 2022. Over 3,300 visa holders have since arrived in Wales, with the majority initially accommodated in our initial accommodation estate and then moved on to longer term homes across Wales. The team Wales approach between the Welsh Government, local authorities, household hosts and others has been critical in making the supersponsor route such a success.

We recently closed our final initial accommodation site in Denbighshire, with successful move-ons for those who were remaining at the site. We are immensely proud of the teamwork that has enabled so many Ukrainians to find safety in Wales. I encourage all Members to read the Audit Wales report on the scheme, which was published in March this year, highlighting the way partners worked together in very challenging circumstances.

We are extremely proud of our history of welcome. However, there is still a lot to achieve if we can ever wholeheartedly declare Wales as a nation of sanctuary. Individuals arriving from Ukraine still need us to focus on ensuring equality of opportunity and good awareness of changes to UK Government schemes that may impact on their ability to stay in the UK. I'm committed to ongoing engagement with Ukrainians and the UK Government to ensure this focus is maintained.

Beyond Ukraine, there are thousands of sanctuary seekers from across the world living in Wales. We continue to work very closely with the Home Office, the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and the Ministry of Defence to ensure Afghan citizens arriving in Wales receive the support they need and deserve due to their service to UK armed forces during their time in Afghanistan. We continue to fund the British Red Cross to help refugees living in Wales be reunited with their loved ones through the UK family reunion scheme. The Welsh Government takes a children’s rights approach by ensuring families can be reunited in our communities.

We are the only Government in the UK funding this work. Refugees in Wales will never truly feel at home without their loved ones, and living without them can cause mental ill-health and financial insecurity. It is a benefit to our communities and a privilege for us to be able to support the work of the British Red Cross. We continue to push for a family reunion scheme with fewer barriers, taking the lessons learned of the now-closed Ukraine family scheme, to ensure families are reunited as quickly and as often as possible.

The UK Government is responsible for the asylum system in Wales. However, we have an ambition to make Wales a welcoming home for asylum seekers whilst they remain here. We have continued to provide funding to the Welsh Refugee Council and its partners to deliver our Wales sanctuary service and move-on services, as well as advocating for improvements to asylum processes to align with Welsh policies and our wider vision. I could say much more about asylum processes and legislation. However, I am conscious of the UK pre-election period, and discussion on some of these points may be more fruitful later in the year.

We are alert to the threat posed by far-right influences and the atmosphere of intolerance this can create. We have seen protests outside accommodation sites, and I want to reiterate there is no home for hate in Wales. We know we can do more to communicate what is meant by the nation of sanctuary vision and to find more effective ways of fostering good relations.

I am pleased the Welsh Government has been able to support the Nation of Sanctuary Awards again this year, which took place last night. The nominees and winners are excellent examples of the contribution sanctuary seekers make to Wales. Their stories are Welsh stories. It is our privilege to provide them with a home in our community of communities, and we in Wales are strengthened by doing so. Diolch.

Cabinet Secretary, the statement today references how successful Welsh Government policy has been on helping refugees, particularly those fleeing from Ukraine, in recent years. It is right that countries should help refugees and asylum seekers wherever possible, and ensure their safety and their prosperity. It is also right that their future should be considered as a priority, including integration into society and personal development with regard to skills and education. So, I regret that there was nothing in this afternoon's statement on Welsh Government policy that ensures safe and secure integration into our society. And also, there was no consideration of how this Welsh Labour Government could prioritise learning for those individuals and communities.

You will be aware, Cabinet Secretary, that in Llantwit Major there have recently been 90 temporary homes built on a former primary school site for the purpose of housing Ukrainian refugees. You will also know that there has been some strong local opposition towards the development and residents have now set up a local action group. Opponents believe that the houses not only look but feel like a prison and are dismayed by the fact that they were not consulted on the proposals for the site, with no engagement with the local community. Rather than consulting the community and taking them along with the process, the Vale of Glamorgan Council have spent £25 million on buildings that are lying dormant until planning approval is granted and decisions have been made.

Cabinet Secretary, this site now has the potential to create a hostile public feeling against refugees who may be housed there. There is always the potential risk of increased tension when refugees are being found accommodation. Therefore, steps need to be put in place where the community is taken along with the decisions so that the sanctuary Wales is offering is not somewhere that is hostile to those seeking refuge. What steps is this Welsh Government taking to ensure local authorities are being sensitive to the local community when housing refugees?

Additionally, transport for refugees and asylum seekers is a crucial offer on which many rely for their day-to-day business. It's my understanding, however, that the welcome bus ticket scheme has now ended, and many asylum seekers in Wales find themselves in positions where they cannot afford to travel. I'm sure you can appreciate, Cabinet Secretary, that the harder it is for refugees and asylum seekers to integrate and find work, without proper help and provision, social problems and other issues such as crime occur, because people find themselves in desperate situations.

Another major issue is that refugees and asylum seekers can easily become targets for exploitation as they look to find an income outside of regular channels. Being in such a vulnerable position, they are unfortunately prime targets for modern slavery. Would you agree with me, Cabinet Secretary, that it is imperative that public transport is made available and that proper provision is made to help those who need it to integrate themselves into our Welsh communities? What proposals do you now have to make public transport a free option for refugees and asylum seekers?

Thank you very much for that series of questions. I'm going to start with transport, because I agree with you that transport is really important. We're very proud of what the welcome ticket scheme did contribute for over two years. I remember travelling back from Cardiff to Wrexham on a train following Senedd business probably about a year ago now and meeting somebody who was a refugee who had taken the time to travel from Holyhead down to Cardiff. So, I absolutely accept that it's not just for employment purposes, which you specifically referred to, but also in order to get to know the country, if you like.

It was a very important scheme and we're very proud of what it achieved. It was introduced at pace, and it was part of our response as a Government in relation to the Ukraine war. We reckon there were about 1 million journeys taken. The scheme was a condition of the £200 million emergency funding package that we provided to the bus industry. So, whilst we absolutely recognise the benefits of it, unfortunately the first phase did finish at the end of March.

When I came into the portfolio, my predecessor, Jane Hutt, had already started to look at what we could learn from the first phase of that welcome ticket, and our intention is to use that information to develop the next phase of the scheme, to make it perhaps a bit more sustainable. Because it was introduced at pace, perhaps we hadn't been able to look at it holistically. And to make it a bit more fit for purpose as well, and to ensure that the limited resources we obviously have are focused on those most in need. So, we're working with key stakeholders, and, as I say, we do intend to launch the next phase of the welcome ticket later on this year. Unfortunately, I can't provide you with a firm timescale at the moment, but just to reassure you we are looking at that.

In relation to education and many languages being taught in school, I think our schools are dealing with that very well. It's obviously a matter for local authorities. I was in a school in my constituency last week where I think there were 33 languages, and the school has adapted because of the support they've had, not just from the local authority, but also from the Welsh Government.

You referred to something in the Vale of Glamorgan. I don't think the way that you portrayed it is accurate, and the local Member for the Vale of Glamorgan is agreeing with me. I do think it is really important that, when anything in the way that you referred to, in relation to buildings, or—. You'll be very well aware that asylum seeker and refugee policy is a reserved matter for the UK Government, and when the UK Government have tried to house refugees or asylum seekers in specific buildings, it is absolutely vital that you work with the local community, because otherwise you do get that intolerance at times, you get wrong messages, you get people coming from afar to bring their hate message, and we really don't want to see that. As I said in my opening statement, there is no home for hate here in Wales.

Thank you for the statement. Plaid Cymru believes that the emphasis on the importance of housing and the home during Refugee Week is vitally important.

Last night, I had the pleasure of attending the Welsh Refugee Council's Nation of Sanctuary Awards. I'd like to say 'well done' to all the winners and nominees, but especially to congratulate the Birth Partner Project, which won the Nation of Sanctuary Award for the wonderful work supporting women seeking sanctuary who would otherwise face birth alone. I wish you'd been there, Cabinet Secretary, not only because it was an inspirational evening, celebrating the contribution and achievements of sanctuary seekers and refugees in Wales and those that support them, but also because the chief executive officer of the Welsh Refugee Council, Andrea Cleaver, made some very important points in her speech about Wales as a nation of sanctuary. She said that the Welsh Government's laudable desire to ensure Wales is a nation of sanctuary must be more than an ideal. She likened it to a bridge—yes, supportive, welcoming, and open, but with dangerous planks missing from it, which must be filled. She referenced, for instance, the cruel and impractical 28-day eviction notice period from asylum accommodation given to those granted refugee status, which can often lead to terrible stress and even homelessness. Those living, of course, in the private rented sector in Wales enjoy the protection of no-fault eviction notices of six months. What does 'nation of sanctuary' actually mean if those who have leave to remain are not treated equally and with compassion and understanding? How is the Welsh Government addressing this issue, given housing is your responsibility?

Yesterday, in evidence to the Equality and Social Justice Committee, you revealed the Government is no longer intending to refresh the nation of sanctuary plan, although it is now five years old. It was concerning to hear this admission at the beginning of Refugee Week, and many people I spoke to last night in the Nation of Sanctuary Awards were dismayed to hear this also. The plan was published in 2019. I'm sure you'll agree it was a very different time and context for sanctuary seekers, both domestically and internationally. It contained over 130 commitments to support people seeking sanctuary in Wales. In the progress report published earlier this year, the Government said of those actions that over 99 per cent are in progress or completed, and that throughout this year you would be undertaking engagement to consider how to refresh that plan. Your predecessor, as Minister for Social Justice, explained that the aim for the next plan was to focus more heavily on the principles that will guide this Government's decision making, with fewer but more tangible outcomes and actions. So, I'd like to know what's changed, Cabinet Secretary. Why will there now be, in your words to the committee yesterday, an 'update', not a refresh? What exactly does that mean?

If you could finish now.

—without representation and appeal. So, Cabinet Secretary, will you and your Government finally introduce a guardianship service here in Wales, like in Scotland, because you cannot profess to take a children's rights approach if you do not?

Thank you. I'm going to start—. First of all, I'd like to say, and I mentioned it in my original part of the statement, that we were really pleased to support the Nation of Sanctuary Awards last night. I too would like to congratulate all the winners and nominees. I think it's really important that we recognise them in this way.

I'm sorry to hear that you and others were dismayed about the comments I made in committee yesterday around the nation of sanctuary plan and vision, but I am glad to have this opportunity to say my commitment to ensuring Wales is a nation of sanctuary remains resolute, and that goes for every Cabinet Secretary and every Minister in this Welsh Government.

You asked, 'What's changed?' I suppose what's changed is I've come into portfolio. Obviously, we have the plan, which, as you say, was published back in 2019. There are lots of actions that have been completed. So, what I have asked officials to do is to look at what we needed to do. Now, it might be that at the end of all this work we do need a refresh, but at the moment, for me, we have to focus on delivery. We have spent the last two years delivering, and I want to continue to do that. But as I say, lots of actions have already been completed. Some of the actions in the plan are very long term, so we need to look at those and see if they need to be in there. But we're working with the third sector to consider if there are any gaps in terms of delivery, and if there are gaps, what we need to do to fill those gaps. I think it’s really important we continue to speak with people who have lived experience of seeking sanctuary.

One thing I am looking at with all the plans—there are a lot of plans in this portfolio, and if you look at the LGBTQ+ plan, it has a tracker, which, for me, shows the transparency. It’s really transparent as to what we are doing with that action plan, and I’ve asked officials to have a look to see if it would be worth putting such a tracker in every plan, including the nation of sanctuary plan, to see if that then will help everybody to be able to access what is happening within the plan. So, the vision, the plan: nothing has changed in respect of that, but, for me, we’ve got to continue to deliver on that. But I just want to reassure people there’s no need at all for dismay; that plan is there. Delivery is what’s important, and I will ensure that I update colleagues as we go through this piece of work.

You referred to guardianship and unaccompanied children. I think you also referred to advocacy, so we know that all children with care experience in Wales have a statutory right to advocacy. I am aware of the call to develop a separate unaccompanied children guardianship scheme, similar to the one operating in Scotland. So, officials have met with Scottish Government colleagues to discuss the scheme, and they’re considering also the report by the Children’s Society, which also called for this. So, what I’ve asked officials to do—it’s a considerable piece of work—is to carry on doing that piece of work, assess what options we have and then send me some advice on that. I will also need to work very closely with the Minister for Social Care if we are to have such a guardianship scheme.

Cabinet Secretary, I was very pleased today to host the Jo Cox Foundation here in the Senedd, and, as you know, they work to bring people together and they’re working with Refugee Week on a great walk as part of the Great Get Together and I think it’s really important that their values inform the way that Government and organisations operate, and I’m very pleased to say that in Newport I think we have some really good examples of that where we have Newport Live, as the leisure trust, taking forward a Momentwm project that partly gives cycling skills to refugees and asylum seekers. And as we’ve heard already, transport issues are very important in terms of accessing services, work, education, training, and so on, so having those bikes, being able to cycle and cycle safely I think is crucial. And they also work with the Gap project around Newport Live’s Positive Futures project, which uses sport to integrate refugees and asylum seekers into our community. They’ve been running weekly football sessions, for example, for quite some time. So, I wonder if you would just recognise some of these examples of good practice, because in all our communities, as Members of the Senedd, we want to see these values in action in terms of integration and that warm welcome.

Thank you. Yes, I would actually absolutely recognise those specific cases of, as you say, best practice. I visited Newport Live with you; it was a different scheme that we were looking at, but I could see the amazing work that they do, and that integration is so important if we are to make sure that people understand what we mean by nation of sanctuary. It is really important that people who come here, if they flee persecution or war, feel they are able to integrate in the community in the way that they would want to, and we certainly want them to do so. I know there are lots of themes in the work that we support via the Welsh Refugee Council. There are lots of examples in relation to that. I wasn’t aware of the event that you sponsored today in Jo Cox’s memory as part of her foundation, but I think, again, that’s really good, and it’s good that we still recognise the amazing work that Jo Cox did.

I didn’t answer the housing question, sorry, for Sioned Williams, and I think that is a discussion I need to have with the housing Minister, because I think it is really important, as you say, that we are able to protect people in the same way we protect Welsh people, that we protect people who are coming here looking for sanctuary, and I will certainly take that forward.

I'm proud that Wales is a nation of sanctuary, helping to ensure people are met with kindness, understanding and to help them fit into the community that they choose to live in. It can be very lonely and tough, living in a different country, away from family and friends, many having to learn a different language and trying just to fit in, especially if carrying the burden of trauma, as many refugees are.

I'm worried that elections are being used to polarise people, to grow hate instead of kindness, to turn their backs on community and being together, especially as people are struggling with the cost-of-living crisis, health appointments and adequate housing. So, Cabinet Secretary, what response would you give to this in spreading the message about what nation of sanctuary does actually mean? Thank you.

Thank you. I just mentioned to John Griffiths that sanctuary seekers are almost always escaping persecution. They're often trying to be reunited with their family members. I think what is really important, and, for me, this is the most important message of Refugee Week, is that the words that we use matter. People are not illegal, they're not simply statistics. Each individual has that story of trauma, and I'm sure that we've all in our surgeries and in our constituencies and regions met people who are completely traumatised and completely desperate. As you say, to leave your country where you understand and are aware of everything, your loved ones are there, your job is there, to end up in a country that some may never even have heard of before must be incredibly difficult to come to terms with. So, you're right about kindness and compassion. I think that's really important. I go back to my earlier answer to Tom Giffard about how this is why it's so important that our stakeholders, our partners do engage with communities so that we can get away from that intolerance that, unfortunately, we sadly hear of.

I too had the privilege to attend the Nation of Sanctuary Awards with Sioned Williams, and I want to thank the Welsh Refugee Council, the Welsh Rugby Union and Wales & West Housing Association, who I think were the main sponsors of what is becoming an important milestone in the social calendar. I think that we have so much to be proud of. I reflect on the words of Carolyn Thomas about the impact of the general election and some of the more toxic comments, but I think we have so much to be proud of and to be confident about, given how well we are becoming a multicultural nation. So, the national poet for Wales is Hanan Issa, a wonderful and extraordinarily talented Welsh-Iraqi poet; the chair of the Welsh Language Society, who was presenting the award for the Welsh language learner of the year, is Joseff Gnagbo, originally an asylum seeker from the Ivory Coast; and the top award went to Birth Partner Project as a nation of sanctuary organisation, which ensures no asylum seeker in Cardiff is giving birth alone. I wondered if you could talk to the Cabinet Secretary for health about how we could expand this project to Swansea, Wrexham and Newport, because these are the main populations where asylum seekers are housed initially, and it would be wonderful if we ensured that—. I don't want any woman, to be honest, to be on their own without somebody to stand up for them at their most vulnerable time, and if we could ensure that the wonderful work being done by Laura Santana and many other volunteers is spread across Wales, that would be a really fantastic outcome.

Yes, absolutely. I would be very happy to speak to the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care. I think the point you make around no woman being on their own when they give birth is really important, and I mentioned, to come to this country and land in a new country where you know nobody, if you are pregnant, that's another layer of difficulties that you have to face. So, I was very pleased when I saw the winners to see that scheme come to the top, and I'll be very happy, as I say, to have a discussion to see how we can spread it to the other three main dispersal areas of Newport, Swansea and Wrexham, because it's not just Cardiff, is it, where women are facing such difficulties. So, yes, I'll certainly be happy to do that.

Now we move to item 4, a statement by the Minister for Social Partnership: Creative Wales skills update. And I call for the statement by the Minister for Social Partnership: Creative Wales. Sarah Murphy.

Diolch. The growth of Wales's creative industries is recognised as one of our major economic success stories. A skilled workforce is key to ensuring the creative sector in Wales builds on this success and continues to thrive and develop, creating valued employment opportunities across Wales. This is recognised by the Welsh Government’s programme for government, which includes an ongoing commitment to supporting creative skills.

As part of this work, an industry-led creative skills advisory panel was appointed in September 2022 to advise upon a three-year creative skills action plan, which seeks to address the skills needs of Creative Wales’s three priority sectors: music, screen and games, animation and immersive technology. I was pleased to join their recent meeting, and really appreciate their commitment and expertise.

The plan outlines Creative Wales’s commitments to bring about change through its own remit and collaboration across Welsh Government portfolios and with others. It sets out 10 priorities identified by the industry for investment in skills in the priority sectors. This action plan cannot be delivered in isolation. Partnership working and collaboration with key industry stakeholders is crucial to supporting a more successful and more representative creative sector. My officials have worked across Government to help establish the creative flexible skills programme, a scheme that provides a 50 per cent subsidy for staff upskilling and training, designed to encourage creative companies to invest in their own staff training. And importantly, in line with our wider ambitions, we are currently working on a review of the creative design and media apprenticeship framework, the first of the apprenticeship frameworks to be reviewed.

A creative skills fund was launched in September 2022 to deliver the priorities of the creative skills action plan. Seventeen projects, receiving £1.5 million of support, were supported through the inaugural round of funding, and a full report on project achievements will be published later this month. Key outputs include the establishment of a new network of screen academies at four film studios across Wales, bespoke training for Welsh music managers and music venues, and a gaming hub supporting the development of BTEC training at levels 1 to 3. Forty-six applications were submitted to the second round of the creative skills fund, launched in May of this year. And I am pleased to announce today that a further 17 projects have been selected to receive £1.5 million of support. Details will be provided on these projects once formal offers are accepted.

Of course, there is still work to be done to ensure the creative workforce in Wales is representative of all sectors of Welsh society. Removing barriers to entry and improving career opportunities for individuals from under-represented groups is, therefore, an important focus of the creative skills action plan. Historically, there has been a dependency on informal and word-of-mouth recruitment. Overreliance on networks and archaic hiring practices can make it difficult for new talent, especially from under-represented communities, to breakthrough into the industry. This is exacerbated by the creative sector often not being seen as a viable career choice for young people or their parents.

To meet this challenge, Creative Wales has developed partnerships with a number of key strategic partners, including Beacons Cymru, National Film and Television School Cymru and Culture Connect Wales, who support diverse talent in finding opportunities in the film and tv sector in Wales. In addition, a number of the projects supported by the second round of the creative skills fund will have a particular focus on improving representation and providing opportunities for all, including those with physical disabilities, learning difficulties and neurodiversity.

Creative Wales established a Creative Wales film and tv skills stakeholder group in January 2020 to bring together key stakeholders, and the group now has over 60 members and has been incredibly valuable as an information-sharing network and in seeking to address silo working.

We recently announced Creative Wales has worked with training providers Sgil Cymru and Screen Alliance Wales to secure a total of £1.4 million of funding, including £900,000 from the British Film Institute, with £300,000 match funding from Creative Wales and £240,000 from BBC Studios for the new BFI skills cluster, the 'One Stop Shop'. This collaborative project will provide clear and coherent signposting to either enter or progress within the screen industry in Wales, and the new cluster will provide bursary funding, co-ordinated work experience placements, training, and will have a full-time mentor on hand to offer advice.

BBC Studios are a key delivery partner for this initiative, providing future entry-level and upskilling career pathways in the sector on continuing drama series Pobol y Cwm and Casualty, with an emphasis on recruitment of Welsh speakers and individuals from under-represented communities. Creative Wales is also working with BBC Studios on the Pobol Welsh language directors scheme, which will provide 10 directors with on-the-job training. The development of Welsh talent, such as writers, producers and directors, is vital to ensuring a continuing pipeline of productions across Wales in the future.

In terms of addressing workplace challenges, particularly around crew retention, Creative Wales has funded a two-year well-being facilitators pilot scheme, and is working with the Film and TV Charity to help prevent stress, mental health issues, bullying, harassment and discrimination on productions. Creative Wales also supported the RoadieMedic service of Focus Wales's music festival in Wrexham in May this year. This forms part of the work that the Welsh Government, through Creative Wales, is doing to develop a road map to help to improve working practices in the creative industries in Wales, using the findings of the Creative Industries Policy and Evidence Centre's 'The Good Work Review' report.

All Welsh Government-funded productions are mandated to provide paid entry-level and upskilling trainee placements, with more than 420 placements supported since January 2020. This has been a game changer in terms of providing experience, crucial on-the-job training, and that all-important first credit on scripted, unscripted, games and animation productions, such as Sex Education, Men Up, House of the Dragon, Lost Boys and Fairies, Maid of Sker 2, and Mini Buds. At least one trainee placement on each funded production must be provided to an apprenticeship from the crew shared apprenticeship scheme, operating in both north and south Wales, and 40 apprentices have benefited from placements on Welsh Government-funded productions to date. This apprenticeship model is now a recognised model of best practice across the UK, and my officials are currently working to extend this level 3 qualification to cover the digital, animation, games and music sectors. This work will continue alongside the review of the creative design and media apprenticeship framework. I am committed to continuing all of this good practice through a clear and focused approach on creative skills to ensure our workforce has the skills and talent necessary to flourish. Diolch.

Can I thank you, Minister, for your statement today? Is it your first statement as a Minister?

Not quite.

Oh, there we go. Congratulations, nonetheless, as the new Minister for Social Partnership. And as my constituency MS, I hope you don't take your eye off the ball locally as well—that's very important.

We're all aware how important the creative industries are, and becoming an increasingly valuable part of our Welsh economy. Indeed, UK Government estimates reveal that the creative industries contributed around £126 billion to the UK economy in 2022. The film industry, particularly, has been increasing its reach in Wales, using more Welsh talent and Wales's beautiful geography to produce films. So, it should not surprise us that the Welsh film industry is going to need a continuous supply of talent for the future. We now have an enormous opportunity to help Welsh children to develop those skills and creative talents that the sector needs in order for it to grow and to flourish. But Creative Wales doesn't appear to have any specific funding streams that encourage children or teenagers to explore the creative industry, and even the youth content fund is currently closed.

As we've recently seen with the potential closure of both the Saturday junior conservatoire and the young RWCMD drama course by the Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama, the provision for helping children to be creative and develop talent and enthusiasm early in their lives is seemingly withdrawn. It's therefore vital, Minister, that resources are made available for our children and young people to develop those skills, otherwise so many are going to find it harder or even be denied huge opportunities to develop careers in this sector.

I recognise the work being done by many in the sector to provide opportunities for people to upskill and improve their career prospects. And I believe that, if Wales is able to create a robust pool of talent, there's no reason why we could not be a global competitor in the creative sector. But I hope you recognise then that that needs to be met with investment. So, with that in mind, what efforts are you taking, and what funding are you making available, to help schoolchildren and teenagers to explore the creative industry as a potential career path? And how are these opportunities ensuring good-quality experiences and learning opportunities for the future workforce?

In terms of attracting international film projects to Wales, it would be quite beneficial if international teams were able to use Cardiff Wales airport to fly in equipment, as well as production teams and film crews and the like. I've spoken with people in the film industry who've expressed frustration that they have lost projects, or projects have become more costly, because of the extra time international crews have had to take transporting their equipment via Heathrow, only then having to drive it all the way back into Wales.

Thank you very much for all of those questions. And I agree with much of it. As you said, the growth of Wales's creative industries is recognised as one of the major economic success stories that we have. The latest statistics on the creative sector supported by Creative Wales show this part of the economy continues to perform well, generating an annual turnover of £1.4 billion and employing 32,500 people, with a significant freelance workforce, which you touched on, which I'll come to. And a skilled workforce is key to ensuring the creative sector in Wales continues to thrive; I completely agree. In terms of some of the funding, what I also didn't touch on, which I think is relevant, is that officials have worked with the Welsh Government skills department to establish the creative flexible skills programme, and that is ring fencing £100,000 per annum to provide a 50 per cent subsidy for staff in upskilling training.

But coming on to your specific question about young people, I know this is something that my colleague Rhianon Passmore is particularly passionate about, about music for young people. And that is one of the three priority sectors that we have in Creative Wales. So, just to give you an example of what we are doing with young people in schools, there are the soundcheck sessions. It's a project developed and run by the Independent Venue Community through Creative Wales funding, which offers young people—so that's aged 14 plus—the chance to go to a venue before doors open to the public to watch the artists playing that night's sound check and then have a Q&A with them, along with some of the crew and venue team. So, it's really inspiring young people, again, to see this as a viable career and to give them that confidence. So, there certainly is work happening in that area.

When it comes to the airport, this would be something that would go between, yes, the Cabinet Secretary for transport, but also the Cabinet Secretary for the economy. I have not had a specific opportunity to go and visit the airport yet, but I do hope to, because I would always like to see the work being done being done in social partnership, and that is where I come in—my portfolio. So, I'm very happy to follow up on that.

And then you mentioned about freelancers. Now, when it comes to freelancers, I actually met with the Broadcasting, Entertainment, Communications and Theatre Union yesterday, and we talked an awful lot about freelancers. As you know, during the pandemic, Wales was the only nation to have a freelancers fund, which was hugely appreciated and kept many people able to—you know, not having to leave the sector completely. Interestingly, one of the key findings in their most recent report, which came out at the beginning of the year, was that universal credit is not appropriate for freelancers, because, by the time they've applied for it, sometimes they pick up work again; sometimes, it goes. It just doesn't work with their type of working schedule. I am curious to see—. Ireland are currently trialling a basic income scheme for people in the creative industries. I'd like us to keep an eye on that. But, ultimately, this will be a conversation that people will need to have with the new incoming Government after 4 July. I obviously hope that's a Labour Government, as they have committed to an industrial strategy that would include the creative industries.

Thank you. Heledd Fychan.

Thank you acting Llywydd, and thank you, Minister, for your statement this afternoon. Clearly, this is a crucial sector for Wales. I'm sure you will have familiarised yourself with the report of the culture committee on the creative industries workforce, which made a number of recommendations, although this plan was in place. It's concerning that there is so much more that needs to be done, and also some shocking statistics in terms of how many freelancers are being lost from the sector for many reasons. Clearly, the support during COVID had been appreciated, but things have been difficult since then, many people haven't returned, and we're seeing far too many people losing income from these industries, or having to leave these sectors, which are so crucially important to us but we are seeing a decline in them.

Can I ask you, therefore, there's been a reduction in the Creative Wales budget in this financial year compared to the last financial year, what impact has that had on the creative skills action plan?

If I may turn to just giving one example, because there was a focus in your response to Tom Giffard around music. Obviously, fantastic, the schemes that are going on, but Music Venue Trust have been in correspondence. I met with them recently, talking about the impact of the recent cut in business rates relief from the 75 per cent to 40 per cent, and the immediate threat of this to Welsh grass-roots music venues. They talk about 16 venues possibly having to close, which is 33 per cent of all the venues in Wales. So, in terms of what you were saying in terms of how young people benefit or work with these kinds of venues, that could be really detrimental. Also, in terms of some of the stats that they've presented: 588 jobs, £8 million of economic activity generated by them currently, 3,500 events and 30,000 performance opportunities. We know that a number of these grass-roots music venues as well are giving that opportunity. I've seen lots in Clwb y Bont of those young bands—perhaps that's their first opportunity. So, when they close, it does have a huge impact.

So, can I ask, one of the issues is, you're developing the workforce, but there has to be somewhere for them to then work and progress. So, I understand your focus on the fund specifically today, but how are you working to ensure that some of the other initiatives or decisions taken by Government aren't actually impacting then on your ability to implement the plan? I think the same is true in terms of apprenticeships. There's an emphasis on apprenticeships, and we've seen a cut to apprenticeship budgets and so on. So, can I ask, in terms of how the actual plan is progressing, how you're alleviating the impact of the cuts that have been to ensure that we are still able to develop the workforce, as has been evidenced with countless inquiries?

Thank you very much. I am familiar with the recommendations from the committee. To be honest, it very much correlates with what I'm hearing since I've been in the role and meeting with people from across the sector. You are right when it comes to people, freelancers in particular, leaving these industries. I think, as I referenced the BECTU report, about a third in Wales now are considering just leaving completely because they haven't got that stability, the cost-of-living crisis, of course, if you haven't got the savings.

We also discussed that diversity is about socioeconomic diversity as well. Do you only end up with people who can afford to go without work for some time? How does that work with families and caring responsibilities? This was something that, like I said, was at the top of the agenda. I do believe it is something that will need to be discussed with the UK Government, and I will absolutely support and push for that wholeheartedly. The model does not work for freelancers, it does not work for our creative industries. So, that's something that I'm very committed to.

The other thing that BECTU mentioned to me—and it's one of those things that sometimes is about unintended consequences. So, of course, one of the things in many areas—not just Wales, but also the south-west, also London, also the north of England—they'll have productions and then they'll say, 'Obviously, please try and recruit locally.' Well, that's fine if you've got projects in your area; if you don't have projects in your area, then you're actually not getting recruited locally, and you're not getting recruited in London either, where the jobs are. That's why, as I've laid out today, so much of the investment is in ensuring that these are projects that are all Wales-wide.

When it comes to the funding, all the budgets, of course, have had cuts to them. I think that, actually, the Welsh Government has really supported the digital, the creative and everything that I've been talking about today, more than other Governments. We haven't slashed it at all, we've still got the £1.5 million fund and we're still going to be providing 17 projects this year, just as we have in previous years. I would say that the cuts, really, within the portfolio, have more been towards things like the Books Council of Wales, which I visited recently as well, and we discussed how that's had an impact, and obviously discussed the future of that. But in terms of the core delivery of Creative Wales, I wouldn't say at the moment that—. I actually think that it's been very successful and the next 17 projects now are going to go even further than that.

When you mentioned the business rates and the Wales Music Venue Trust, I actually met with them, as well, recently. We had a really good conversation about everything that you've said, which did end up going into that nostalgia of all the gigs that I went to myself around the Welsh Valleys when I was growing up. And we've lost places like Barfly and Gwdihŵ and things in Cardiff as well, where those medium-to-small bands would get an opportunity to sell out on a Friday and Saturday night. One of the things that we did talk about was that we've got really big stadium gigs coming to Cardiff—we've got one tonight, we've got one next week with Foo Fighters—and what could be done, really, to work with them and those promoters and those stadiums to see if there's a way that we can give back to local music and grass-roots music. That's something that I'm really supporting them with in exploring, as well as the artist pledge that they're asking Welsh artists to sign up to, which I'm also going to be helping them to promote. I think that's really crucial, as well, for the future.

Diolch.

In north Wales, Wrexham and Flintshire made a bid to become an investment zone for advanced manufacturing, creative industries and digital. Lately, I've been hearing that creative industries and digital have been dropped to just talk about advanced manufacturing, which has been a real concern. In north Wales, there's a lot of potential, we've got Theatr Clwyd, we've got new studios being opened up and lots of courses being offered in Wrexham and other places as well. On digital, Wrexham recently made a bid to be a city of culture, but broadband, digital was an issue. So, we really need to have that as well. So, Cabinet Secretary, would you be able to make a case for us to retain creative industries and digital, as well as advanced manufacturing for north Wales? We can really build on it.

Thank you very much for the question. Yes, as you mentioned, the investment zones are a joint programme between the Welsh Government and the UK Government, and decisions are paused at the moment on this programme until the new UK Government is in place. The investment zones were intended to focus on addressing barriers, as you've said, for high-growth potential sectors or clusters, and to have that kind of narrow focus.

The Flintshire and Wrexham investment zone was selected on the basis of a joint objective assessment by the Welsh Government and UK Government, with the area showing particular strengths in advanced manufacturing. So, essentially, the private sector-led proposal didn't fit with that focus and, ultimately, it was not necessarily dropped, it was just that it was not part of the agreement for the investment zone going further. So, that's the specific update on that investment zone. However, what I would say is that it doesn't mean that there's not an absolute commitment to the digital, to the creative in north Wales. As I mentioned in my other responses today, many of the projects that are being supported and are happening in Wales are happening in the north of Wales, and we are really supporting that.

I also wanted to point out as well—and this is something, maybe, to point to in the hopes of having that kind of city of culture and things—that Games Talent Wales is a grass-roots games talent development programme that Creative Wales supports in partnership with Glyndwr university, which supported eight companies in 2023. So, I'd be more than happy to send you a copy of that, just to point to a lot of innovation and businesses that are setting up in this sector and receiving support from Welsh Government as well. But if it hasn't been identified as a key sector in that area, it doesn't mean that there isn't stuff happening, and let's have a follow-up conversation because I'm absolutely committed to ensuring that that is happening in north Wales too.

Minister, thank you for your statement today. I think I will declare an interest as a former freelancer, but I'm appreciative of the emphasis today that you've placed on the freelance workforce participation. And I would also welcome any exploration with the UK Government, in terms of any type of system that will benefit creatives, alongside the interesting work in Northern Ireland around the basic income.

So, the three-year 'Creative Skills Action Plan 2022-2025' seeks to address the skills needs of Creative Wales’s three priority sectors—music, screen and games, animation and immersive technologies—and that is to be welcomed. While the funding, via a creative skills fund of £3 million in two rounds of awards from the Welsh Government, is very much welcomed, the creative landscape, however, continues to be heavily undermined by austerity and cuts to the Welsh budget and the public spending that emanates from the financial decision making of the UK Tory Government.

Equally of note, though, is the critical determination and decision making, strategically made by Wales's own arts council model, which itself plays a pivotal role in the shape and direction of travel of Welsh skills and Welsh culture. While these new funding steps are very welcome, I think that we also need to be vigilant and not further any actions that cause erosion of established cultural sectors in Wales—for example, the current decimation of opera and theatre, and the amazing breadth of sector skills, and the amount of jobs from these the largest arts employers of Wales.

The Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama is also consulting to end its junior department by July this term, pointing to significant financial challenges. Young Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama, the junior conservatoire of Wales, offers a full range of Saturday curricula for skills learning, for those aged four to 18. It's on a par with the Royal College of Music, Guildhall, the Royal Academy of Music and the Royal Northern College of Music. These are what we have now.

You need to ask your question now, please.

Yes, I'll come to my question then. In regard to the re-evaluation of the creative skills plan, bearing in mind also the skills development of the outreach of Welsh National Opera, is there any consideration in the third year of how that will be undertaken, going forward? Because we manifestly face a serious undermining of skills and opportunities in vital established cultural sectors, such as those that I have mentioned at our conservatoire and at the Welsh National Opera. Diolch.

Thank you very much, Rhianon Passmore, for those questions. As I have said, I know that this is an area that you are very, very passionate about. It doesn't quite fall under my portfolio, as I'm sure you understand, but I did just want to say that I really admire your passion for this, and I understand that this is a really, really difficult time for our music venues, but also educators in Wales.

We heard, earlier on today, that the First Minister used to play the trumpet and the violin. I used to play the clarinet, like Mark Drakeford, in the Pontypridd community orchestra. It was always a huge honour to be able to go up and play in those bigger venues. It was really, really special. And to have those people coming through—that pipeline—is absolutely crucial. So, I totally take on board what you are saying.

In terms of music and apprenticeships, though, it is one of the three key priorities that we have in Creative Wales. The people I mentioned on the skills advisory panel have a wealth of expertise in this area, and they will point out that we have got a lot of people who are mixers, for example, and producers, who are going to be retiring shortly. So, this is an area that we really need to boost.

I mentioned earlier on to Tom Giffard about the sound check sessions that are being done with young people to inspire them. I've mentioned today the support that we are giving to the projects, bringing in House of the Dragon to film in Wales. All of these things, really, are just to really, really boost this industry and to give people that hope and stability for the future.

I just want to say as well in terms of the apprenticeships, which I haven't touched on, that at least one trainee placement on each Welsh Government-funded production must be provided to an apprentice from Criw, the shared apprenticeship scheme that now operates in both north and south Wales. Like I have said before, this is a recognised model of best practice.

It's not just about bringing people in, though. It's about upskilling as we go through. This is something that I'm constantly hearing. I really want to say thank you to the people who do engage with the Welsh Government and Creative Wales, and really share their absolute on-the-ground knowledge and expertise when it comes to all of this. We are listening, and I'm sure that many of them would share what you have said today as well. So, diolch.

Thank you, Minister.

Item 5 is a statement by the Cabinet Secretary for Climate Change and Rural Affairs: Wales's world-class recycling. I call on the Cabinet Secretary, Huw Irranca-Davies.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. On World Environment Day on 5 June, it was announced that Wales has now climbed to second in the world for recycling. This is rightly a cause for celebration, but it's even more remarkable when you consider that we've gone from a nation that recycled less than 5 per cent of waste at the start of devolution, sending 95 per cent of our rubbish to landfill 25 years ago, to a point where we now only landfill 1.6 per cent. Recycling has become a key part of who we are as a nation.

I'm especially proud that it is also an achievement that is built on a very Welsh way of doing things. This achievement belongs to everyone. It is testament to the partnership working and the team effort right across Wales, from people embracing recycling in their homes to the local authorities who have continually improved their collections and the waste sector who reprocess the recycled material.

There are core factors that have underpinned our success. From the outset, there has been a clear long-term vision backed up by the Welsh Government's commitment and supported by consistent policy and progressive regulatory regimes. This has provided the long-term certainty and a clear pathway, supported also in turn by an investment of £1 billion since devolution in the infrastructure and the expert support and the guidance to improve services to deliver these world-class recycling rates.

Our approach has also been based on evidence, which shows that keeping materials separate minimises the contamination and delivers high-quality recycling. This in turn helps us to capture more important and valuable materials that generate income for our local authorities and for our waste sector, and they can be used by our manufacturing industries to make products from recycled materials, which maximises both the environmental outcomes and the economic benefits.

Tackling the climate and nature emergency is a crucial task for this Government, for people across Wales today and for future generations. Reducing our emissions is essential, and our high rate of recycling saves around 400,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide every year. By effectively capturing recycled material that is fed back into the economy and used instead of virgin raw materials, it crucially also reduces the extraction of materials that is also a root cause of the global biodiversity crisis. Almost half—45 per cent—of our global carbon emissions are due to the goods and products we consume, and 90 per cent of biodiversity loss is caused by resource extraction and processing. That's why the move to a circular economy, where we keep materials in circulation, is an imperative, not a choice. In line with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, it is also an essential part of a globally responsible Wales.

Collecting high-quality recycled material that can be used by our industry and manufacturers is also good for the economy. It helps to make our supply chains more resilient, as well as more local, and it brings the opportunity to derive greater economic benefit and to support Wales's competitiveness as the global economy decarbonises. This is why recycling's contribution to the move to a circular economy is not just a key part of action to decarbonise, but it's also essential to action on climate resilience and our overarching Welsh Government objective to create a stronger, greener economy. That's why the responsibility for the circular economy is now embedded within the economy department, reflecting the commitment in 'Net Zero Wales' to a circular economy approach across all sectors, and further cementing our approach of working across Government to drive results.

Whist it's important to celebrate our success and recognise the team effort that's gone into reaching second in the world—let me just repeat that: second in the world—going forward, there is no room for complacency. We want to be challenging for the top spot next. To build on our recycling success, we are already taking the next steps, with the new workplace recycling laws that came into force on 6 April this year. These changes apply the same approach that has been so successful in household recycling to workplaces, bringing greater consistency and ensuring that we capture even more high-quality recycling that can be used by Welsh manufacturers.

Whilst recycling is a crucial step, as set out in our circular economy strategy, we're also committed to building on the strong foundations to also move 'Beyond Recycling', as we transition to a circular economy in Wales. This is why we've been supporting the rapid growth of repair and reuse facilities in Wales, with repair cafés, benthyg libraries of things and repair and reuse hubs being rolled out across Wales. These facilities, which I've used myself, are not only helping communities and individuals to tackle the climate and nature crisis, but they also provide vital support for the cost-of-living crisis, by providing, for example, furniture, domestic appliances, sports equipment, school uniforms, or enabling people to borrow expensive household tools and equipment such as pressure washers or carpet cleaners. Ultimately we want to see reuse and repair as mainstream and as normalised as recycling is today.

Wales's achievements in recycling have been internationally recognised for some time, but we're now also gaining recognition for our broader approach to the circular economy, with Wales having been chosen as the 2024 European circular economy hotspot. This will see Wales host an international conference in Cardiff this October to share Wales's achievements and good practice examples from public bodies, from the private sector, from communities, and learn about circular economy solutions from Wales and internationally. It will be a huge opportunity to collaborate, to innovate and to further inspire more action, and we look forward to welcoming leaders and innovators from right across the world.

Owing to the agony of a penalty shootout, Dirprwy Lywydd, we have just missed out on the Euros currently being competed for this summer, and we're all very gloomy about that. But in the global league table for recycling, we are a hair's breadth from the top spot. So, going forward I'm confident that we have the ability to challenge for that No. 1 position, with a partnership approach that has underpinned our success to date, meaning we are well placed to deliver that stronger, greener, more sustainable future for Wales. Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd.

I'd like to congratulate the people of Wales for the special efforts they have made and are making to continue recycling, and thank you, Minister, for your upbeat statement. To be ranked second in the world is a brilliant achievement. We've gone from 95 per cent of rubbish going to landfill to now only 1.6 per cent, and this is saving 400,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide a year.

But as with anything, we could always do more. The average recycling rate in Wales is 66 per cent, and it varies from 59 per cent in Torfaen to 72 per cent in Pembrokeshire and Swansea. Over the years Conwy County Borough Council, no matter who has led that council politically, have had really good returns on recycling. So, huge thanks to all the environmental team there, and of course the head of service.

Personally I think it's essential that the Welsh Government and our local authorities work closely with communities and businesses. You've mentioned the new scheme coming in in April for businesses. Having an office myself, I participate in this, and we now have to have a container for food wastage, but there's never any food wastage in my office. We have tea bags, and so they have to go into the food waste. So I have to have this container, but then that transcends to having lots of bins in our yard, and we just haven't got the space, but we do it. But then there are other businesses where we share this car park, and it's proving difficult at the moment. That's been the biggest negative feedback that I've received—the numbers of containers we've now got to have that need to be emptied. So, whether that could be thought out a little better going on.

Denbighshire council has come under criticism, I do know, from my colleague Darren Millar MS and also Gareth Davies because they've just spent millions on scrapping its popular, easy-to-use and high-performing blue wheelie bin collection, which I'm so envious of in Aberconwy, because we have trolley boxes, and in the bad weather they are just hopeless. You find them in the hedgerows, you find them on roads; they're quite dangerous, actually, because they're just not heavy enough.

They've now got rid of their high-performing blue wheelie bin co-mingled recycling collection service. In moving to the controversial Trolibocs system I wish they'd spoken to the neighbouring authority, Conwy. Thousands of household bin collections have been missed. According to the chief executive, Graham Boase, it is taking longer for refuse workers to collect waste, and refuse wagons had filled up perhaps more than they were going to, which means they have to return to the depot more frequently to unload to go back out again. This saga highlights the need for the Welsh Government to commission a study into whether asking residents to separate their recycling is more efficient than mixing recyclables and leaving it to waste professionals to separate.

Janet, first of all, thank you very much for the welcome and your recognition that this is actually driven by people power—it really is. It's been a challenge for individual households when we went through this, and there was a lot of controversy originally, but also for local authorities. Denbighshire, you mentioned, curiously, is going through that at the moment, but what they're helping us do is drive up to that 70 per cent target that we currently have. So, we will be first, hopefully, in the world. But we're working with them, and you rightly point to what neighbouring authorities have done, like Conwy.

Every local authority starts from a different position, has slightly different approaches based on where they come from with their residents and their kerbside collection, and so on. But we have an expert group that works with all the local authorities. I've just come from a meeting with the Welsh Local Government Association literally discussing this as I came down here into the Chamber and almost missed the start of the debate, Dirprwy Lywydd. But we were actually saying that the benefit of the approach in Wales and partnership working is that we share best practice, we look at those who've come through this journey as well, including my own local authority in Bridgend, where we certainly had a fair bit of controversy as we pushed our stats up there. But we're there, and Denbighshire will get there as well, and we'll work with them and help them.

You mentioned a couple of things in there about whether there are other ways we could do it. You flag up some where they don't do the sorting. We know that the sorting and the segregation at the point where you put it into the containers, keeping it clean, keeping it separated, is exactly what improves the quality and the usability of that recyclate that comes through. What we don't want is things that are mixed together. That's why it's a bit of a journey to do this and to explain to people why we need to do this. But I'll tell you in most of those areas of Wales where local authorities have now done it, people are saying, 'Well, this is what we do', and this is why I suspect in the workplace ones there have been some concerns expressed in this Chamber, but fewer by far than what we had with the residential approach to this. Actually, people are now saying, 'We understand why we need to do this, and it's the right thing to do.'

Just a couple of other points. Not every local authority is there yet, but look at the strides that we have taken. We're working in that partnership approach to lift every boat, as I just said to the WLGA, which I've just met. You mentioned the DRS as well very briefly. We were pleased to sign off quite recently on a four-nation statement on DRS, which the UK Government was very keen to clear with Scotland, Northern Ireland and ourselves. We're happy to do that. It mainly focuses on the issue of plastic, steel and aluminium, which is great, that's good, but, actually, Wales is further ahead in the trajectory. So, we have made clear to this UK Government, and to any future UK Government, that we stand very firm on the ground of saying, 'An all-in scheme is what we need.' Because we need glass not only to deal with the issues of litter and recycling, but because it is glass that will help us move down the decarbonisation agenda. The idea that we heat it up to 1,500 degrees, with all the carbon intensity behind that, and then recycle it into another product, when what we could be doing is—and I am old enough to remember this—actually returning the bottles, in good shape, on a modern system, at the point within that retailer, we can do it. We can do it. And we'll work with the local authorities and the supply chain to do it. And they know this, and I've met with them, but that's the next move.

I'd like to begin by congratulating the people of Wales for the remarkable achievement in being ranked as the second-best recycling nation in the world. It's no small feat, is it, and it's testament to the hard work of our communities and our local authorities and businesses who've embraced the importance of recycling.

However, while we celebrate this achievement, it is imperative that we maintain a critical and constructive stance, to ensure we continue to improve and address the ongoing challenges in the recycling sector. And one of the primary concerns, perhaps, is the quality and sustainability of jobs in the recycling industry. While recycling rates have surged, we must ask whether the jobs created in this sector are reflective of the high standards and sustainability goals we aspire to. So, how is the Welsh Government ensuring that these positions are not only numerous, but also provide high-quality, long-term employment opportunities for our citizens? It's crucial we invest in the workforce, providing the necessary training and career development, to foster a robust and resilient recycling industry. So, could you detail the specific measures being taken to support and expand high-quality jobs within this vital sector?

In light of our impressive ranking, it's crucial also we continue to evolve and innovate our recycling practices. So, with this in mind, could the Cabinet Secretary share lessons or best practices from other leading recycling nations, particularly, of course, Austria? We are considering, or have already started to implement, to further modernise and enhance our recycling in Wales. How are we ensuring that we stay at the forefront of recycling technology and methodology, to maintain and improve our global standing? Let's go for the top spot.

Another pressing issue, of course, is the ongoing challenge of behavioural change, and you've touched somewhat on this. Although, of course, our recycling rates are commendable, ensuring consistent participation across all demographics and sectors does remain a hurdle. So, what initiatives are currently in place to embed recycling and circular economy practices into the everyday lives of our citizens? How can we enhance these initiatives to make recycling not just a habit, but a deeply ingrained aspect of our culture? So, it'd be good to hear more about any sort of innovative approaches or educational campaigns planned to further encourage and sustain behavioural change.

The new requirements for businesses regarding recycling present both opportunities and challenges, as we've heard. While these regulations are a step, of course, in the right direction for environmental sustainability, SMEs do face hurdles in adapting to these changes. So, what support mechanisms are being implemented to assist them to transition smoothly, to encourage them to become part of this and not see it as something problematic, as Janet Finch-Saunders outlined? We must have comprehensive guidance and resources to ensure our SMEs can meet these new standards, and really buy into it.

Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you so much for those comments and thank you for opening your remarks by congratulating the people of Wales because truly that is what has happened. It's not a transition, our seismic step from what I have publicly described before, when I was sitting on the green benches in Westminster, as something of an embarrassment of where Wales was in terms of recycling to become second in the world, and within a whisker of being first in the world. Dirprwy Lywydd, as you know, we met a delegation the other day that included the Austrian ambassador, and it was a lovely meeting and we got along very well. We discussed many, many things, but I did say to him, 'We're coming for your title', and he took it in good humour; I didn't cause a diplomatic incident there. [Laughter.]

With regard to the people of Wales, it's not just those individuals who are doing the work, but it's those people who work within local authorities, the people who work within WRAP, the people who work in community organisations, who are driving and evangelising about reuse, recycling and the circular economy—they are helping us, everybody is helping us here. And the children—. When I met with the Eco-Schools yesterday, at an initiative organised by Eluned Morgan with schools throughout Mid and West Wales—crikey, they will force us to do this because they see it, and they see it in the jobs as well, which I'll turn to in a moment.

I'm working very closely with the Cabinet Secretary for economy, Jeremy Miles, in this as well, because the ring for circular economy is held within that, understandably, but aspects like this, what we do with recycling and reuse—this is the proper cross-Government working on it. And you raise that issue quite pertinently, which falls to us across Government to make sure that we're keeping the value within Wales, so we're not just collecting the recyclate, we're actually doing the whole line of production.

Now, at this moment—interestingly, we were in Port Talbot, I think it was a week last Monday, myself, the Dirprwy Lywydd, and the First Minister, standing in front of heaps of plastic junk, the most difficult-to-recycle plastics that we have within the UK, the sort of stuff that traditionally would either have ended up in landfill or being shipped to some far-forgotten place around the world. It's not anymore. That is the biggest company, AWJ—him and his father working together, transforming a company from a traditional waste/landfill company into waste recycling. They've got the ways of actually breaking that hard plastic down into recyclate product, but they're actually at the moment having to take it over the border into Birmingham and Derbyshire and places like that for them to turn it into products, and what they said is, 'What we want to do is, now that we've got the breakthrough'—and they're doing it; they're the biggest company doing this in the whole of southern Britain—but they want to keep the value here in Wales, and they're committed to doing it, themselves and working with others, and that's where we need to get that sustainable—. When we talk about green jobs, those are the green jobs. In what was a traditional waste-to-landfill company, which is now with a very well-informed father, I have to say, who understands biochemistry like there's no tomorrow, and his son, who's enthusiastic—actually turning that into the businesses of today and tomorrow and future generations.

And just to correct you, it's AWD Group—

Sorry, ADW.

They would tell me off if I didn't correct you. [Laughter.] Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you. I'm very disappointed that Gareth Davies is not here, because he could really learn something from this, as he keeps going on about the problems suffered by the people of Denbighshire in having to do what the people of Conwy have been doing for years and years. Anyway—just to explain to him, because Cardiff has been one of the laggards in this, sadly, but it is now proceeding at pace, with two of my wards starting to do doorstep separation from July, and the whole of the rest of Cardiff will have doorstep separation by the end of this calendar year. So, why Cardiff is absolutely needing to do this, and is now in a hurry to it, is because of the loss of earnings that Cardiff is suffering from not doing it. And that is what Gareth Davies needs to take back to the good people of Denbighshire. Which local authority can afford not to do this, given the difference in the waste? I have the photographic evidence of the before and after that you get, the impact you get from—. Where there is not separation, it's all adulterated waste, which is far less valuable, whereas those that have been separated—you can see that this is clearly waste that people can do something with and make money out of.

You need to ask a question now, please.

So, I want to know, on two other challenges, what can we do to ensure that we can make money from the muck produced by cows and poultry sheds, given that the—? The wealth of Peru was founded of guano in the nineteenth century, and it was one of the more most important fertilizers at that point. How can we accelerate the separation of grey water from sewage, so that we're not having to pay for expensive extra sewage plants, when we could be reusing the grey water to clean our streets and water our flowers?

That is a great final question. Just to say that I agree with you entirely. Mention was made earlier on in one of the initial contributions that, 'Isn't it nice when you get to a place where in a local authority you can just put everything in one thing and then they separate it?'—no, no, no. No, no, no, no. The reason we've got to the point that we have, Dirprwy Lywydd, is because we're doing exactly what you said, Jenny, which is that doorstep separation, with clean, unadulterated items. It increases the value of those recyclate products, and the value chain, then, of how those are subsequently used or reused. So, actually, don't look at the ones that are still working their way up—and we'll support them to do it—look at the ones who have got to that point and what they are doing. They are separating their waste, and that adds to the value chain enormously.

And the other thing I would say on that is a point that was made earlier on, actually: one thing we need to do is we need to lead on this, as Members of the Senedd as well. We need not to say, 'Look at the scale of that mountain, we can't do it, let's go back to what we used to do.' We need to say, 'Look at the scale of that mountain and the opportunities as we climb it, in jobs as well as the environment and everything else. Let's make the most of this. Let's get up there together.' That's what we need to be doing. So, actually, the more we rubbish local authorities—. Sorry, that was not a pun intended. But the more we stand in this Chamber and criticise local authorities for not being there or because they're trying to do innovative things to hit that 70 per cent target, that actually knocks us back. What they want to see is us standing up and saying, 'Let's get there, we can do it, look at the neighbouring authorities, look at others who've been through this.' We've been through it in mine. It was painful, but we got there and now people don't question it. So, that's what you need to do.

And your interesting question at the end there. So, leadership from us, I think, is key. Money for muck from cows and hens—I think we absolutely need to deal with that as well. It's a similar situation. Rather than looking at this as a problem, to say, 'Well, actually, where have we got the universities, the research faculties'—and it is happening—'that are starting to turn their attention to say, "How do we see this as a useful and valuable by-product that could be used, as opposed to actually going into overuse within our soil or going into our rivers?"' And that's where we need to be. That has to be our approach in a circular economy, saying, 'How do we use this stuff?', not seeing it as a burden, but an opportunity.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for your statement here today, which really does give us plenty to celebrate. I share your ambition for Wales to become the No. 1 country in the world for recycling, and there's clearly excellent practice across our local authorities in Wales, but there's still room for local authorities to learn from each other in order to standardise and to maximise that best practice. For example, I believe that Rhondda Cynon Taf council is one of the only local authorities in Wales with the capacity to recycle mattresses. That's not just the springs; that's the fabric as well. And in addition, many of our local authorities provide disposable nappy recycling, with RCT again being recognised as a world leader in this field. But not all local authorities offer disposable nappy recycling. So, Cabinet Secretary, what more can be done to share that best practice across Wales so that more items can be recycled, helping us to aim for that coveted No. 1 spot?

Vikki, a really great question, and, as I mentioned, I've just come from a meeting with the WLGA. They are actually—. We're learning from them, as opposed to us telling them what to do, and they are, like RCT, driving innovation. And it's different in different parts of Wales. But what's great about the expert group from the WLGA is that sharing of good practice. What I picked up from the meeting with them just now is not a reluctance to move forward, a real enthusiasm to do it, even with those that are struggling to get up that last bit of the hill with the current targets. But it's because they can look at the innovations going on elsewhere.

There's also a question about how we work with the WLGA and the expert group to actually say, 'Well, you don't all have to do the collection and recycling of particular items; you can work together on this,' and that's a WLGA approach as well. I think this partnership approach in Wales stands us in very good stead. But what does stand us in even better stead is what I picked up from that meeting just now, that there are no naysayers there. There is nobody, as we did hear earlier on in this Chamber today saying, 'Oh, this is too hard, let's row back on this, let's take it easy, let's go down from No. 2 to No. 10 to No. 20 to whatever, because we don't have to do all this hard graft.' Well, if we don't do that hard graft, then we don't achieve the environmental outcomes we want, we don't decarbonise at the pace that we want to, but also we don't create those supply chain jobs as well, including those where they're innovating in RCT, and we want to see this right across Wales—north Wales, south Wales, west Wales, mid Wales—everywhere delivering those supply chain benefits.

This is partnership working at its best: Welsh Government, residents and local authorities working together. I just wanted to say that it is difficult collecting waste for local authorities. You get vehicle breakdowns, staff absences, and I actually worked a round one day; I walked 13 miles. So, I just want to say, when you have more houses, change is difficult—you know, for Denbighshire, having this change—and there are bound to be issues at first, but we've just got to give them support going through. Evidence has told us there is little to be gained by going forward with a deposit-return scheme, and I'm so glad that we're having this four-nation approach and working, with extended producer responsibility coming in first as well; I think that's really good. I know that, in England, they're so far behind that 41 per cent recycling is the average in England; Liverpool's only at 17 per cent. So, they've got a lot of catching up to do.

I just wanted to ask you a question about on-the-go waste. So, we see this in the public bins, don't we? It's really hard for local authorities to recycle because it's contaminated, so I was just wondering what you could do, really, to address this. Perhaps a take-home policy or something, or—I don't know; just what could we do about that.

Anything in particular? In what example? In what instance?

On-the-go waste. So, many people take food and drinks with them, so could we encourage them to take it back with them if they take them for a picnic, whatever, you know? What can we do about that?

That is such a good point, because that is part of the journey we're on. How do we get to the point where—? Like we've started to do with coffee cups. I carry one in the side pocket of my bag, so that I can go into a shop and say, 'Use my cup to fill up with a coffee.' We know that there are many shops, including in Aberkenfig, in bakers, where you can take containers and you can fill up with products. There are other ones in Pencoed where you can fill up with breakfast cereals, this, that and the other. But how do we apply that thinking to things like takeaway food, so it's not always prepackaged?

One thing I'm really glad to see recently is how takeaways have responded to the regulatory push that says, 'These materials are not going to be used anymore.' And we're increasingly seeing now the chip shop, the Chinese takeaway, in recyclable packaging—they've transitioned to that increasingly. If they aren't doing it, if anybody knows of anybody who isn't doing it, direct them to the Welsh Government site where they can get the advice on how to do it. They should be doing it now. There's the next challenge, things like home takeaways. There's a lot of these little parts that we need to think through cleverly, how we can make it easy for people to do that, and make it easy for the takeaways to do it themselves as well. Is there some innovation there that we can learn from other countries?

Oh, and I'm sorry, I didn't—. Linked to that, I didn't respond to the earlier point: how do we actually learn and share international best practice? Next October, when the world will come to Cardiff in the conference here, we won't only be sharing our own experience, we'll actually be inviting people who are leading in this from around the world to share with us how they've done it, and, who knows, there might be somebody who's broken the back of the takeaway issue.

And a last-minute takeaway from Rhianon Passmore. [Laughter.]

Very briefly, and, firstly, what a fantastic achievement, and we are ambitious to do even more, and I would also like to thank the people of Wales in that regard as well as the strategic policy underwriting that. My question, really, is a simple one. In terms of the amount of rubbish on the go that Carolyn Thomas has already mentioned, that fast food outlets in particular—I'm thinking those that are on the sides of motorways—permit daily, and the amount of rubbish that comes out of these establishments, what levers have we got in Wales to tackle that?

I think we've got a couple. It's a really good question, and can I just say 'thank you' to not just the people of Wales but everybody's constituents individually, and for the leadership that everybody's shown here in driving this forward? There are ways in which we can tackle that. One is through what we do on litter and fly-tipping, not just working with voluntary groups, but actually showing, demonstrating and profiling when we land mega fines on people for fly-tipping and so on. I think that's important. We don't need to do it for everybody, we're not going to have a fly-tipping policeperson on every corner of every street, but, actually, when we do do it, going big on it, and saying, 'This is what will happen.' And also the misuse of commercial tipping as well, where people decide not to be licensed and registered, but do that as well.

But there's one other fundamental part that we can do, and we think we've progressed well on this, and it's what we do with extended producer responsibility, the idea that, in a proper polluter-pays principle, we shift this right upstream, and we say to the people who are producing all the packaging around all the items that we get, 'Well, you're actually going to have to pay.' That revenue stream will then come into local authorities so that they, instead of taxpayers—. So, the ones who are producing the waste will pay for the cleaning up of it. Now, that's a very important principle. That's something we adopted when we were in the European Union; we're standing strong on that principle as well, Dirprwy Lywydd. So, Dirprwy Lywydd, in your constituency and in everybody else's, we get to the point, and it's coming in the next year, 18 months, as we put this into place—working with, I have to say, those producers of the packaging and everything else, to say to them, 'You will now have to have a revenue stream that comes into local authorities to help them clean it up'—. And maybe some of that can go towards the community groups and the litter pickers and so on as well. Do you know what that will also lead to? It will probably lead to less waste as well, because, if they have to pay for the privilege of cleaning it up, they might say, 'Well, we'll redesign some of our packaging,' so there's less packaging and waste before it even gets out there, and that would be a good thing. Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you for the question.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary.

Item 6 is the Government of Wales Act 2006 (Devolved Welsh Authorities) (Amendment) Order 2024. I call on the Cabinet Secretary for Education to move the motion. Lynne Neagle.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I move the motion. The Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Act 2022 provides for the establishment of the Commission for Tertiary Education and Research—the commission—and the dissolution of the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales or HEFCW. The commission will be the regulatory body responsible for the funding, oversight and regulation of tertiary education and research in Wales. Tertiary education encompasses higher education, further education and training, apprenticeships, sixth forms and adult community learning.

The Government of Wales Act 2006 (Devolved Welsh Authorities) (Amendment) Order 2024 makes provision in respect of the status of the commission and HEFCW as devolved Welsh authorities. Section 157A of the Government of Wales Act 2006 defines a devolved Welsh authority as a public authority whose functions

'are exercisable only in relation to Wales'

and whose functions wholly or mainly

'do not relate to reserved matters.'

Any public authority that does not meet the conditions of a devolved Welsh authority is a reserved authority.

Public authorities are also devolved Welsh authorities by virtue of being listed in Schedule 9A to the Act. Including public authorities within the list at Schedule 9A, rather than relying on the definition, provides a confirmatory role and increases transparency in relation to the identification of devolved Welsh authorities. The Order before you today will amend Schedule 9A of the Government of Wales Act to reflect the dissolution of HEFCW and the establishment of the commission by adding the commission to the list of devolved Welsh authorities and removing HEFCW.

I would like to thank the LJC committee for their consideration of the draft Order. Members will have seen my response to their report. In relation to the technical point on the inclusion of the Senedd in the headnote of the draft, officials have raised this with officials at the Wales Office, and requested that this follows recent Orders in Council and the guidance within statutory instrument practice.

The committee also requested an update on the implications of the dissolution of the UK Parliament. I provided Members with an update on 11 June 2024 in relation to this. As Members will be aware, this Order has been laid in both the Senedd and in Parliament, but cannot be made until it has been approved by both Houses of Parliament and the Senedd. It will be a matter for an incoming UK Government to table a new motion seeking the approval of this Order. I will keep Members updated on this following the general election.

And I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mike Hedges.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The LJC committee considered these draft regulations on 10 June, and our report and the Welsh Government's response are available on today's agenda. Our report contains two technical and one merits reporting points. Before I briefly summarise our technical reporting, I will just highlight the written statement the Cabinet Secretary issued last week, which relates to the single merits point in our report.

As the Cabinet Secretary has just outlined, this draft Order cannot be made until it has been approved by both Houses of Parliament and the Senedd. Given the dissolution of the UK Parliament ahead of the next UK election, in the statement the Cabinet Secretary indicated that it will now be a matter for the incoming UK Government to table a new motion seeking the approval of both Houses of Parliament, and the Senedd's consideration will go ahead in the meantime.

Our merits point had identified this issue and we asked the Welsh Government to provide an update on the future of the draft Order. In formally responding to this point in our report, the Welsh Government drew our attention to the written statement and confirmed that Members would be kept informed of progress on the Order once the new UK Government is formed and UK parliamentary business is resumed.

Turning to our first technical reporting point, the Order is in English only. In our report, we highlight the reasoning provided in the explanatory memorandum, which states that, as the Order in Council is UK Government legislation, the draft Order is laid before the Senedd in English only.

Our second technical reporting point notes that the italic headnote at the top of the draft Order states only that the draft is laid before the Parliament for approval by resolution of each House. The Welsh Government told us that, while the draft was prepared to be consistent with the headnote on Orders in Council previously made under section 109 of the Government of Wales Act 2006, the Welsh Government does consider that reference to the Senedd should have been included in the headnote as a matter of good practice and has asked the Wales Office to ensure that the headnotes of future draft Orders include a reference to the Senedd's role in the process. Diolch.

I call on the Cabinet Secretary to reply.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I just thank the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee for his contribution to the debate? And I ask Members to approve the Order.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Items 7 and 8 have been postponed until 16 July. And that brings today's proceedings to a close.